Actually, that is pretty much the premise of my whole "Undercover" series. The next 'chapter', "Appearances" (still being written) deals with this issue more directly than previous chapters have, particularly Gene's reaction to the modern 'gay rights' movement which Sam, of course, supports and Gene thinks is short of insane.
In Manchester, Gay News was available, but a 'local' gay rag was not published until 1978; on top of that, and more pertenant to Gene Hunt's story, the Chief Constable of the GMP was viciously homophobic. Club raids and 'stings' were the order of the day and being queer (which was still considered a derogatory term in the 70s) was literally a life destroying matter.
I've speculated that Gene is 'old school gay' which is exactly how you've described him: living a secret life and in a set 'role' and very much a product of those times. It's a terribly interesting perspective that only a few of us (DorsetGirl in "Signals", for one really good example) have explored.
Would love to see your own story that you described. Sounds lovely!
Oh, you've done some research too, eh? Cool. I generally don't read WIPs (it's just a habit of mine), but I'll be looking forward to reading your fic once you're done :).
Your second paragraph, that's real life canon, right? Not your fic fanon? Because that would be good to know if I'm actually going to write that fic I was talking about.
I will have to check out that fic, Signals. I don't want to rewrite something that's already been written in this fandom :).
No problem! It wasn't originally designed as a WIP, but it turned out that way, although this chapter is certainly going to be the last (it's an exhausting series).
Yes, the second paragraph is real life 1970s Manchester, based on research and contacts I have in the queer community there. I also grew up in the queer community in the 70s and 80s so some of my 'research' for my fic is just based on people I knew. LOL!
Oh, shiny, you actually know people in Manchester! Lol. That's always the best way to do research. Sadly, I don't know anyone up there, all my UK contacts gather in the south for some reason ;).
As Mikey isn't saying it, Undercover and Exposed ARE complete stories in their own right and she does cover a lot of this same ground. The links would be in Community mems under her name.
Oooh and welcome! Pull up a chair and have a cuppa and some pink wafers...
Oh, okay. Hmm, now I don't know whether to read them to make sure I won't write the same thing, or to save them for later so as not to be influenced too much. Decisions! Every new fandom comes with so many decisions! xD
Pink wafers, shiny. There's nothing like food of completely unnatural color to brighten up the day ;).
I was thinking about writing a Gene/Sam fic in which Gene is hot for Sammy but can't admit it, and so it happens that he gets desperate at some point and tries to simply take what he can't bring himself to ask for, only to have Sam beat the shit out of him and tell him that if he wants this, fine with Sam, but he's not going to get to take it by force. After some sulking and wound-licking there would be a long talk and then some hot steamy man sex with a side dish of guilt thrown in.
If that could be seen as your plot summary (don't worry I'm not holding you to it) then I think you'll be OK. Mikey's stories have a closeted Gene who wants Sam and a Sam who has feelings for Gene that he can't get comfortable with as he's never "been" gay. It covers some of the same territory -- a background of what a closeted Gay man's life would have been like at the time -- but is definitely a different take on it. Her Gene *knows* himself and has had homosexual relationships before it is Sam trying to align his emotional feelings with being able to express them physically that is more the problem. I think you'd enjoy them and, as I said, if your paragraph above might be seen as a potential plot summary I don't really see a conflict.
If the dangerous food colouring bothers you we could just have some Garibaldis or a nice Party 7 instead... *g*
Hee, no, that was my plot summary before I realized that if Gene's gay, he very probably knows about it. Now I'm more going into the direction of Gene being gay and Sam finding out accidentally - the fic would center mostly on the issue of Sam being shocked to see first hand what being gay meant for a man in 1973. For this purpose, I'd have Sam identify as bisexual, though. I don't even know if it would end outright as Sam/Gene; maybe it would just be a pre-slashy fic about the friendship between the two.
And lol, I should stop talking so much about this fic. If I ever get around to writing it, I'll be way too anxious to get all of this across to produce anything useful, lol.
Well I'm the worst to make a recommendation there -- I happily pimp my own work, shamelessly! so my objectivity is unreliable at best -- but for the sake of your decision making process:
Undercover: Sam accidentally discovers Gene is gay. Gene accidentally is led to believe that Sam is gay as well, and Sam is unable to 'clear the record' before they are drawn into a murder case involving the gay community. Sam essentially goes 'undercover' and in the process, 'leads' Gene on to thinking he has a chance with Sam and also gets a first hand perspective on gay life of the era. The sequel, "Exposed", deals more with Sam's issues about his (confused) sexuality and what he's gotten himself into with Gene. The in-process final, "Appearances," delves deeply into Gene's issues and the politics of the era.
I personally have no stake in whether you read these now or later, but in reading this thread it does seem we're talking about a lot of the same issues. NOT to put you off writing your version, NEVER! Because as I said, this is a concept that very few in the fandom have explored and I would love to see more writers taking on. ♥
Hee, I guess I'll postpone reading your fic, then, and will try to write my fic idea first - as long as I know that you don't have a problem with it, I don't mind that there's already fic that deals with similar issues, because I think it's a topic that can be approached from quite a few perspectives.
That said, I really look forward to reading your fic. It sounds very interesting :).
this is a concept that very few in the fandom have explored That's surprising, actually. I'd have thought it would be one of the major fic themes in this fandom, considering how complex it is. Hee, all the better, more space for me to play with ideas xD.
Yes, I was surprised at how little this idea has been explored, overall, as a complex and serious issue. I don't think my work quite delves into some of the murkier depths -- I do try to keep the boys happy, generally -- and there is just a lot of territory than can be covered here.
Now, a lot of fics DO assume Gene is gay, but not within the larger context of what it meant to be gay in that era, I guess because it is a whole can of worms than really gets in the way PWP!! LOL! But I think it is a fascinating topic.
I think there is also a tendency to view Sam as sexually comfortable with himself simply because he is from 2006. Like you, I think his personality would lead more to repression than anything. I've written him both ways, though. I generally just make hay with assumptions when I can! *evil laugh*
I do try to keep the boys happy, generally Hee, then our fics will probably differ after all. My writing is usually more of the angsty, depressing kind - don't ask me why, it just seems to mostly turn out that way, lol. Except when I'm being silly, which happens quite often xD.
Hee, yeah, if you're taking the times into consideration, PWP, especially of the fluffy sort, is not all that easy to write anymore, lol. Although I bet a fic about a meeting somewhere in the woods including hot steamy seekrit man sex in the Cortina could be hot, too xD.
Like you, I think his personality would lead more to repression than anything Hmm, actually, I think that if Sam had any gay tendencies, he'd be aware and accepting of them. He does repress a lot, but he's also very anal about his principles, and I think denying his own gay tendencies wouldn't really agree with those principles. He wouldn't be one of those people who shove their bi- or homosexuality into other people's faces, but I think he'd be aware of it and would stand his ground if confronted about it, because he'd have this grand idea of having to defend gay rights for the better of society. Lol xD.
this is a concept that very few in the fandom have explored
That's surprising, actually. I'd have thought it would be one of the major fic themes in this fandom
Well, I have a theory on that. I haven't been in any other fandoms, but it seems to me that a lot of the writers in this fandom - myself included - have never written anything before, never even wanted to, until LOM in general and Gene/Sam in particular just grabbed them by the heart and demanded to be written.
So you're talking people who don't know how to write, have no history or experience of writing, and therefore I think the tendency is to go for the simple and obvious stuff, leaving the more complicated things for when you have a little spare capacity outside of the mechanics of the actual writing. None of this is meant to denigrate anyone's work in this fandom, because I definitely count myself as one who just goes for the simple, obvious stuff, despite Mikey's very kind recommendation of Signals.
(I'd just like to clarify, btw, that my LJ is just used for archive purposes in the main. The "public" copy of Signals is at Signals Part 1, Signals Part 2 which is where you will find the comments).
For the sake of completeness, Signals follows on from my first ever posting, What Do Girls Do
I'll look forward to seeing your fic when it's done, and - more importantly - welcome to the comm!
And I'd like to second Drayce's rec - Mikey does complicated very well indeed, and she also does detailed header notes so you can avoid anything that might be too close to what you're planning to write until after you're done.
Well, most new fandoms consist mainly of fandom newbies - with new fandoms I mean fandoms of shows that are still airing or have been canceled very recently. Usually, though, there's a subgroup of people who've been in fandom for a while before discovering the one particular show, and who have some experience in writing fanfic.
But LoM is such a small fandom, so it's probably just that in this fandom this subgroup is much smaller than in other fandoms.
I've read Signals and was going to comment as soon as I've read the prequel. Thanks for linking me to the other site; I'll leave my feedback there together with the other comments :).
And I am definitely planning on reading Mikey's fic. LoM might be small, but it's all new to me, so yay, loads of shiny new fic :D.
In Manchester, Gay News was available, but a 'local' gay rag was not published until 1978; on top of that, and more pertenant to Gene Hunt's story, the Chief Constable of the GMP was viciously homophobic. Club raids and 'stings' were the order of the day and being queer (which was still considered a derogatory term in the 70s) was literally a life destroying matter.
I've speculated that Gene is 'old school gay' which is exactly how you've described him: living a secret life and in a set 'role' and very much a product of those times. It's a terribly interesting perspective that only a few of us (DorsetGirl in "Signals", for one really good example) have explored.
Would love to see your own story that you described. Sounds lovely!
Reply
Your second paragraph, that's real life canon, right? Not your fic fanon? Because that would be good to know if I'm actually going to write that fic I was talking about.
I will have to check out that fic, Signals. I don't want to rewrite something that's already been written in this fandom :).
Reply
Yes, the second paragraph is real life 1970s Manchester, based on research and contacts I have in the queer community there. I also grew up in the queer community in the 70s and 80s so some of my 'research' for my fic is just based on people I knew. LOL!
I don't think Signals crosses with your idea at all:
Signals, part 1
Signals, part 2
Enjoy!
Reply
Thanks for the links! I'm sure I'll enjoy it :).
Reply
Oooh and welcome! Pull up a chair and have a cuppa and some pink wafers...
Reply
Pink wafers, shiny. There's nothing like food of completely unnatural color to brighten up the day ;).
Reply
If that could be seen as your plot summary (don't worry I'm not holding you to it) then I think you'll be OK. Mikey's stories have a closeted Gene who wants Sam and a Sam who has feelings for Gene that he can't get comfortable with as he's never "been" gay. It covers some of the same territory -- a background of what a closeted Gay man's life would have been like at the time -- but is definitely a different take on it. Her Gene *knows* himself and has had homosexual relationships before it is Sam trying to align his emotional feelings with being able to express them physically that is more the problem. I think you'd enjoy them and, as I said, if your paragraph above might be seen as a potential plot summary I don't really see a conflict.
If the dangerous food colouring bothers you we could just have some Garibaldis or a nice Party 7 instead... *g*
Reply
And lol, I should stop talking so much about this fic. If I ever get around to writing it, I'll be way too anxious to get all of this across to produce anything useful, lol.
Party 7 sounds good! Hee xD.
Reply
Reply
Undercover:
Sam accidentally discovers Gene is gay. Gene accidentally is led to believe that Sam is gay as well, and Sam is unable to 'clear the record' before they are drawn into a murder case involving the gay community. Sam essentially goes 'undercover' and in the process, 'leads' Gene on to thinking he has a chance with Sam and also gets a first hand perspective on gay life of the era.
The sequel, "Exposed", deals more with Sam's issues about his (confused) sexuality and what he's gotten himself into with Gene. The in-process final, "Appearances," delves deeply into Gene's issues and the politics of the era.
I personally have no stake in whether you read these now or later, but in reading this thread it does seem we're talking about a lot of the same issues. NOT to put you off writing your version, NEVER! Because as I said, this is a concept that very few in the fandom have explored and I would love to see more writers taking on. ♥
Reply
That said, I really look forward to reading your fic. It sounds very interesting :).
this is a concept that very few in the fandom have explored
That's surprising, actually. I'd have thought it would be one of the major fic themes in this fandom, considering how complex it is. Hee, all the better, more space for me to play with ideas xD.
Reply
Yes, I was surprised at how little this idea has been explored, overall, as a complex and serious issue. I don't think my work quite delves into some of the murkier depths -- I do try to keep the boys happy, generally -- and there is just a lot of territory than can be covered here.
Now, a lot of fics DO assume Gene is gay, but not within the larger context of what it meant to be gay in that era, I guess because it is a whole can of worms than really gets in the way PWP!! LOL! But I think it is a fascinating topic.
I think there is also a tendency to view Sam as sexually comfortable with himself simply because he is from 2006. Like you, I think his personality would lead more to repression than anything. I've written him both ways, though. I generally just make hay with assumptions when I can! *evil laugh*
Reply
Hee, then our fics will probably differ after all. My writing is usually more of the angsty, depressing kind - don't ask me why, it just seems to mostly turn out that way, lol. Except when I'm being silly, which happens quite often xD.
Hee, yeah, if you're taking the times into consideration, PWP, especially of the fluffy sort, is not all that easy to write anymore, lol. Although I bet a fic about a meeting somewhere in the woods including hot steamy seekrit man sex in the Cortina could be hot, too xD.
Like you, I think his personality would lead more to repression than anything
Hmm, actually, I think that if Sam had any gay tendencies, he'd be aware and accepting of them. He does repress a lot, but he's also very anal about his principles, and I think denying his own gay tendencies wouldn't really agree with those principles. He wouldn't be one of those people who shove their bi- or homosexuality into other people's faces, but I think he'd be aware of it and would stand his ground if confronted about it, because he'd have this grand idea of having to defend gay rights for the better of society. Lol xD.
Reply
That's surprising, actually. I'd have thought it would be one of the major fic themes in this fandom
Well, I have a theory on that. I haven't been in any other fandoms, but it seems to me that a lot of the writers in this fandom - myself included - have never written anything before, never even wanted to, until LOM in general and Gene/Sam in particular just grabbed them by the heart and demanded to be written.
So you're talking people who don't know how to write, have no history or experience of writing, and therefore I think the tendency is to go for the simple and obvious stuff, leaving the more complicated things for when you have a little spare capacity outside of the mechanics of the actual writing. None of this is meant to denigrate anyone's work in this fandom, because I definitely count myself as one who just goes for the simple, obvious stuff, despite Mikey's very kind recommendation of Signals.
(I'd just like to clarify, btw, that my LJ is just used for archive purposes in the main. The "public" copy of Signals is at Signals Part 1, Signals Part 2 which is where you will find the comments).
For the sake of completeness, Signals follows on from my first ever posting, What Do Girls Do
I'll look forward to seeing your fic when it's done, and - more importantly - welcome to the comm!
And I'd like to second Drayce's rec - Mikey does complicated very well indeed, and she also does detailed header notes so you can avoid anything that might be too close to what you're planning to write until after you're done.
Reply
But LoM is such a small fandom, so it's probably just that in this fandom this subgroup is much smaller than in other fandoms.
I've read Signals and was going to comment as soon as I've read the prequel. Thanks for linking me to the other site; I'll leave my feedback there together with the other comments :).
And I am definitely planning on reading Mikey's fic. LoM might be small, but it's all new to me, so yay, loads of shiny new fic :D.
Reply
Leave a comment