Tl;dr again... sorry, lol ;)t_eylaJanuary 15 2008, 19:37:15 UTC
thanks, t-eyla, for putting all this a) eloquently and b) without the venom I had been nervously anticipating I don't believe in spouting vitriol when I don't agree with someone. Well-founded arguments work so much better to convince other people of your opinion ;).
this is a personal flaw of my own character I don't consider it a flaw. It's simply a matter of preference. Me, I could never get into the whole idea of watching/reading something only so I could find out how it relates to the real world. Actually, I have a deep aversion to doing so. As I said, matter of preference.
As for Doctor Who, I think the problem is multi-layered. 1) You generally don't like sci-fi and can't really gain any intellectual stimulation from watching/reading it. 2) You subsequently have no awareness of the history and culture of sci-fi. 3) You have only ever seen New Who.
New Who is of an extremely postmodern character. You know how shows that have been running for rather a long time start including little inside jokes and humorous jabs at their own clichés? Like for example the X-Files; I'm thinking of the season 5 episode Postmodern Prometheus, which is so extremely self-ironic it twists your brain.
Well. Doctor Who has been running since 1963. And unlike Star Trek, which survived by creating one spin-off after the other, this is still the same show. It's the same show that used to have aliens who were wearing bubble wrap costumes, and the same main character that in the 80ies ran around for 5 seasons wearing a decorative celery stick on his lapel. The term sonic screwdriver, when it was invented, sounded highly technological. Today, the word sonic communicates out-dated equipment.
New Who is a science fiction show faced with the nearly impossible task to bridge more than 40 years of science, and not only any 40 years, but the last 40 years of the 20th century, which have brought us more technological progress than any other time. Subsequently, they had to develop their own style - the one I mentioned above. They question everything. Nothing is conventional, even the unconventional elements are not unconventional in a conventional sense. This is how you get homicidal Christmas trees and murderous shop window dummies and the crazed, seemingly over-the-top character that is Tennant's interpretation of the Doctor.
I can see how someone who's completely blank as far as sci-fi is concerned would get the impression that this show is the worst, most superficial show ever, though. Doctor Who is using all the classic elements of sci-fi because it has to; they're too deeply ingrained in the canon to discard them. You have to have a certain awareness of sci-fi culture to gain anything from watching it. I've never realized this before, but now that I'm thinking about it, it seems very obvious. Because New Who is like a very well written, original guilty pleasure fic for sci-fi geeks.
I think it's fascinating that you find Torchwood more interesting than DW. Because while I like TW, I can't help but laugh at how hard it tries to be adult - every other scene there's sex, boy kissing or violence. I watch it because I approve of the boy kissing, and because they do have their moments, but imo, it's by far not as well thought through as DW. And um, about the production? The producers of both shows are the same person.
I'm not going to start comparing HL to DT, because I think they're both extremely awesome in their very own way. HL would basically suck if he tried to play the tenth Doctor, just like DT would fail horribly if he tried to be House. I appreciate them both as very talented actors. David Tennant is much prettier, though.
House depicts human, emotional stories that I can relate to, whereas Dr Who, however great it's writing might become, could never affect me the same way I think that is what it comes down to. It's a matter of preference. And that's great, isn't it? Infinite diversity in infinite combination; the more people with different opinions, the more interesting it gets here in fandom \o/ :D.
Re: Tl;dr again... sorry, lol ;)maddoggirlJanuary 15 2008, 19:59:42 UTC
Erm ... yes, basically. By production, by the way, I meant general slickness of appearance rather than literal producers. But anyway, yeah. I see what you mean about everything.
I've never watched the X Files (bit before my time). I think I'd like it. Mulder and Scully seem sassy in a way that appeals to me. And I like the mystery element. Anyhoo, thanks for taking the time to politely explain why I'm not approaching the show in the right way, because you're right. It'll help me be more understanding next time I clash with my friend Mark over Dr Who (he HAS the sonic screwdriver. And a sonic bottle-opener, but I'm guessing that doesn't feature in the show ;D)
Re: Tl;dr again... sorry, lol ;)t_eylaJanuary 15 2008, 20:19:12 UTC
Oh, the X Files are awesome. It might be a way for you to find your way into the horror/sci-fi genre, if you're interested. X Files isn't quite as hard core as DW xD.
Yay for having convinced you, lol xD. Btw, I wasn't trying to tell you you have to love DW. If you want to, you should go right on hating the show, because there's never going to be a show everybody loves. I just couldn't keep my mouth shut, since I got the feeling that you were missing out on the exact factor that I think makes DW as awesome as I think it is.
I was thinking about buying the sonic screwdriver on ebay, to go with my cosplay Doctor costume. But the December budget didn't cover it D:.
I don't believe in spouting vitriol when I don't agree with someone. Well-founded arguments work so much better to convince other people of your opinion ;).
this is a personal flaw of my own character
I don't consider it a flaw. It's simply a matter of preference. Me, I could never get into the whole idea of watching/reading something only so I could find out how it relates to the real world. Actually, I have a deep aversion to doing so. As I said, matter of preference.
As for Doctor Who, I think the problem is multi-layered.
1) You generally don't like sci-fi and can't really gain any intellectual stimulation from watching/reading it.
2) You subsequently have no awareness of the history and culture of sci-fi.
3) You have only ever seen New Who.
New Who is of an extremely postmodern character. You know how shows that have been running for rather a long time start including little inside jokes and humorous jabs at their own clichés? Like for example the X-Files; I'm thinking of the season 5 episode Postmodern Prometheus, which is so extremely self-ironic it twists your brain.
Well. Doctor Who has been running since 1963. And unlike Star Trek, which survived by creating one spin-off after the other, this is still the same show. It's the same show that used to have aliens who were wearing bubble wrap costumes, and the same main character that in the 80ies ran around for 5 seasons wearing a decorative celery stick on his lapel. The term sonic screwdriver, when it was invented, sounded highly technological. Today, the word sonic communicates out-dated equipment.
New Who is a science fiction show faced with the nearly impossible task to bridge more than 40 years of science, and not only any 40 years, but the last 40 years of the 20th century, which have brought us more technological progress than any other time. Subsequently, they had to develop their own style - the one I mentioned above. They question everything. Nothing is conventional, even the unconventional elements are not unconventional in a conventional sense. This is how you get homicidal Christmas trees and murderous shop window dummies and the crazed, seemingly over-the-top character that is Tennant's interpretation of the Doctor.
I can see how someone who's completely blank as far as sci-fi is concerned would get the impression that this show is the worst, most superficial show ever, though. Doctor Who is using all the classic elements of sci-fi because it has to; they're too deeply ingrained in the canon to discard them. You have to have a certain awareness of sci-fi culture to gain anything from watching it. I've never realized this before, but now that I'm thinking about it, it seems very obvious. Because New Who is like a very well written, original guilty pleasure fic for sci-fi geeks.
I think it's fascinating that you find Torchwood more interesting than DW. Because while I like TW, I can't help but laugh at how hard it tries to be adult - every other scene there's sex, boy kissing or violence. I watch it because I approve of the boy kissing, and because they do have their moments, but imo, it's by far not as well thought through as DW. And um, about the production? The producers of both shows are the same person.
I'm not going to start comparing HL to DT, because I think they're both extremely awesome in their very own way. HL would basically suck if he tried to play the tenth Doctor, just like DT would fail horribly if he tried to be House. I appreciate them both as very talented actors. David Tennant is much prettier, though.
House depicts human, emotional stories that I can relate to, whereas Dr Who, however great it's writing might become, could never affect me the same way
I think that is what it comes down to. It's a matter of preference. And that's great, isn't it? Infinite diversity in infinite combination; the more people with different opinions, the more interesting it gets here in fandom \o/ :D.
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I've never watched the X Files (bit before my time). I think I'd like it. Mulder and Scully seem sassy in a way that appeals to me. And I like the mystery element. Anyhoo, thanks for taking the time to politely explain why I'm not approaching the show in the right way, because you're right. It'll help me be more understanding next time I clash with my friend Mark over Dr Who (he HAS the sonic screwdriver. And a sonic bottle-opener, but I'm guessing that doesn't feature in the show ;D)
Reply
Yay for having convinced you, lol xD. Btw, I wasn't trying to tell you you have to love DW. If you want to, you should go right on hating the show, because there's never going to be a show everybody loves. I just couldn't keep my mouth shut, since I got the feeling that you were missing out on the exact factor that I think makes DW as awesome as I think it is.
I was thinking about buying the sonic screwdriver on ebay, to go with my cosplay Doctor costume. But the December budget didn't cover it D:.
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