Reboot Fic: Fire Dancing 2/4 (Draws VIII)

[syredronning]

Title: Fire Dancing (Draws VIII)
Author: Acidqueen
Series: Reboot aka ST:XI aka AOS - Draws Series
Codes: Pike/Kirk/McCoy and other pairings; several original characters of various genders
Rating: NC-17 for some hot scenes; warning: teacher/student relationship
Word count: complete 41.000, this part 9.500

Thanks for helpful comments goes to madelf

Comments

[shagungu]

That makes a lot of sense -- being gay is a core part of Pike's identity, whereas being polyamorous is not. Pike's behavior right now is poly, but if he hadn't started a relationship with Kirk/McCoy he could just have easily ended up in a monogamous relationship. Opposite to me -- being poly is part of my core identity, but being bisexual isn't (I just realized one day that I was bisexual, shrugged my shoulders, and moved on).

Of course, this is another difference between Pike and Kirk / McCoy -- neither of the latter is gay, and McCoy if anything is closer to being het. It also seems more important to each of them that they are poly -- after all, they are a couple in an open relationship and they end up needing to explain/justify that reasonably frequently. I will be interested in seeing if/when this comes up again.

I also wanted to mention that I like reading about a gay character in fanfic. So often in m/m slash the men are bisexual, or even primarily het (but making an exception for the one man they are attracted to). Given the actual statistics on human male sexuality (bisexuality is rare, men are almost always either gay or straight) this also seems more realistic to me -- and very interesting.

[syredronning]

Interesting. I wonder where this statistics "bisexuality is rare, men are almost always either gay or straight" comes from, because there seems to be a whole lot of hidden male bisexuality around. My husband is in a gay web community and there are many "straight" men looking for m/m sex without telling their wives.

So my assumption would be that most such men in such a survey would check "straight" even though they e.g. meet men for blow jobs, because they don't see themselves as bisexual (much safer for them, their straight relationships and their brain).

OTOH, one could argue with that that the survey is correct and that "real" bisexuality (as in: "would have true relationship - and not just sex - with any gender") is rarer among men. Hmmm :)

[shagungu]

I have read some of the relevant research, though of course when it comes to sexual orientation there are always a lot of caveats -- you can't assume that the subjects are being honest given issues like stigma, etc. I probably should have said bisexuality is relatively rare -- across all men, het is the most common, gay the second most, and bisexual the rarest orientation. Women are quite different -- het is still the most common, but bisexual is second most and lesbian the rarest. I think this is pretty well established, even if it isn't clear exactly what the percentages are for each orientation. Interestingly, in women sexual orientation correlates with sex drive -- in that women with a high sex drive are more likely to be bisexual, and in general orientation in women is more fluid than in men. I haven't read evidence that the same correlation is true in men. I think as a bisexual woman it is easy for me to think that men should be the same, but even men who intellectually want to be bisexual often find sexual relationships with men are much less compelling than with women. That being said, lots of men are capable of situational bisexuality - as often seen in prisons, the military, etc -- but stop having sex with men and return to having sex with women when the situation changes.

My own belief is that many people can make a sexual relationship work with someone who isn't their preferred type for awhile, but it can be hard to sustain over time especially if they are sexually exclusive. I think that we see this in gay men who marry women, make it work for a short while, but then realize that their orientation is too compelling and the sexual relationship with their wife is too weak. Often these men have truly loved their wives, and it is a tragic example of how love isn't always enough.

So in fanfic I sometimes have trouble in "suspending my disbelief" when two primarily het men get together, quickly promise to be monogamous and claim that they won't really miss having sex with women, and then are still having hot sex 2 decades later. Not that it isn't a fun fantasy for me to entertain, but it doesn't really hit me as realistic. I find this particularly to be the case in Kirk-McCoy fiction -- somehow in Kirk-Spock I can pretend that the telepathic connection crosses over mere sexual orientation, and in other m/m pairings it is rarer to characterize them as being primarily het because these pairings don't have previous canon relationships with women that the author has to deal with.

Getting back to Draws :) -- I don't have this problem with the Kirk-McCoy relationship here. I can believe Kirk as a fairly balanced bisexual, and McCoy as more primarily het, but still having a powerful connection with Kirk and Pike. Their having an open relationship and honestly acknowledging their differences in orientation really helps with the believability.

Ok, so much for my rant on sexual orientation -- you did say you enjoyed the discussion :)

[syredronning]

My own belief is that many people can make a sexual relationship work with someone who isn't their preferred type for awhile, but it can be hard to sustain over time especially if they are sexually exclusive.

WORD. I've seen the same with couples where one is into hardcore S&M and the other is vanilla, and even flexible vanillas tend to get a problem when the kinks are heavy and/or needed a lot. I love that saying that sex is 20 percent when it works and 80 percent when it doesn't work, so I see it as mandatory that in every relationship, people feel good about the sex level they have. It may look like little from the outside, but it's all in the personal perception.

I agree that in Kirk/Spock, the magic Vulcan bond could fix that divergence in sexual preferences. OTOH, in my brain, Kirk will always have sex with women once in a while. My TOS K/Mc was always more on the fuckbuddies edge - great friendship and real love but the sex is not exclusive.

Glad to hear that it works for you in Draws. And he, with Dael in the mix it will be... interesting, to say the least :)

[syredronning]

P.S: Looking at myself, I'd say kink is my core and bisexuality and slight poly leanings came with it *ponders*

I think the core can be identified by the groups you primarily hang out with. I'm foremost in S&M circles; Pike would alway prefer the gay scene.

Interesting :) Ah, love this discussion.

[shagungu]

Heh. For me, poly is my core relationship identity -- and I do hang out in poly groups, etc etc. Even when I am only in one relationship, I am still identifying as poly. For me, I am rarely in SM circles -- only when I have a partner that is interested (I am pretty vanilla, but flexible...) -- and don't identify as kinky (though I am kink-positive). I have no interest in single sex groups in general, or lesbian/bi woman groups in particular.

There is some interesting research in social psychology on the self concept -- in general, people are faster to process characteristics that are in their core self, rather than characteristics that are less important to them. It occurred to me that this is relevant to characterization -- it is possible to have two people or characters who share a personality trait, but for one person it is part of their core identity, and for the other it isn't. This will lead to the people having different world views and different behaviors, even though the basic trait is similar.

[syredronning]

Somehow your last comments hid in the pile of my mails, so I'm glad I checked back here.

This will lead to the people having different world views and different behaviors, even though the basic trait is similar.

Very true, and nicely put.

Kink-positive and flexible vanilla are great traits in someone who's poly. Should make the sex life much easier :)