On calling the director when opp is drawing incorrectly

[synodalhaj]

It seems to me that you should just do it, each and every time

Comments

[vinylchances]

This is a very nice principle, but it's very hard to execute it... as Kenji says, very hard to make friends this way, yes.

Even if you're not trying to "be a dick about it," you'll inevitably be perceived that way.

There are some people I've known for a relatively long time who hold the bag in an improper place -- people I see every week at club and play with all the time, etc. I would never say anything, because I don't suspect any malice there, and I don't wanna become "that guy who bugs people about drawing." I'm sure others are in the same boat here.

[crosstables]

I agree. In fact, someone we know was asked to adjust drawing technique during a tourney, and the perception was that the requestER was just being sorta dickish. Perhaps directors should mill around more, or deputize helpers to keep an eye on people, to take the onus off the opponent. It feels to me that when your opponent says, "Keep your bag up," it sounds more like "you're cheating" than if a director says it to you and some others.

[synodalhaj]

I think how you do it is a big part of it. I guess I would only really recommend this strongly to someone who would get really upset if they lost a game to someone they thought was cheating due to improper bag drawing.

I don't think changing the rules is going to do much--we already have a rule (re drawing) that makes it so it's tough to cheat. The point is you need to get it enforced, right?

Part of this is attitudes, too. There shouldn't be stigma associated with a director call.

Maybe I am being a bit unrealistic.

[cesarsalad]

There shouldn't be a stigma, but there is; we need to do something to collectively remove the stigma, but I don't know what. Perhaps the directors can remind everyone before the games begin that if an opponent is drawing suspiciously, to gently tell them to raise the bag higher, or hell, change the rule so that "your eyes must be visible while drawing" (actually, I have a feeling this is partly how it's worded). It doesn't have to be an implication of cheating, but there doesn't seem to be an easy way. I think cheaters prey on the fact that it's hard to call them out on it and that there is so much plausible deniability. I tend to notice how all my opponents draw and for a very small number of them, I notice that they draw suspiciously, and that they are noticing that I am noticing them, but no more is said; this is partly my fault of course.

Cheating (or the strong suspicion thereof) can ruin an entire tournament for the cheatee; Kenji completely steamed off his games and I understand exactly how he felt.

[synodalhaj]

Maybe I should modify this to "each and every time when facing an opponent who you feel might be doing something shady." I mean, if you don't feel they're doing something shady, then you're not going to get upset, right? If you do, on the very first occasion where you think something is being done improperly, just call the director.

Saves you from being upset. No harm for honest mistakes--everyone gets a good reminder.

[wallydraigle]

Let me respond with something that I'll undoubtedly have to write to NASPA: Why I didn't call the director over earlier

[synodalhaj]

Establishing a formal track record of complaints and/or incidents is the best (only?) way to develop a case against someone. Very rarely are there seven witnesses and a camera record of obvious cheating (or other misdeeds) which is unmistakable

[wallydraigle]

The only way to get him out is if the director saw it. If the opponent knew the director was watching, he'd stop (as long as the director was watching). He's probably stop for a few rounds and then go back. That's not the goal.