FAQ and ... more
The Conclusion
Okie! I think we've covered this pretty well and, at this point, I think we'll veer more into harm than help to keep going. As it's already upset people, that's more than enough (I'm so sorry, guys). So, I'm going to be closing this topic now. This is not the iron boot of authority stamping down, if you want to email or message me you're absolutely welcome to.
As an overview, I think what's come out of this is that the pros of the fics/vids/etc do outweigh the cons, and not just on a purely fiscal or freedom-of-speech level: they help people. That's all they need to do. Ever. The rest is noise.
However, we do need to look at how we present them on the site to minimise the impact on people it doesn't help, because that's obviously equally as important and that's what the poll will be about tomorrow.
The FAQ, it liiiiiiiiives. If anyone(s) would be willing to give it a quick read for a) making any sense at all and b) seeing if I've missed obvious questions, they would be shiny and awesome. I don't really want to start linking to it from the front page and then have to change it, that way lies confusion.
I was reminded of something while writing the FAQ. Okay, here goes. Incest. *lightning flashes, wolves howl*
This includes the Wincest, the ... twincest? Other 'cest! 'Cest in general. Except when Greek Gods are involved, possibly. IDEK.
It's also been pointed out that dub-con, non-con and similar types of fic with interesting nomenclature, not exactly the most appropriate things in the world either. I'm kind of tweaking this post as people point things out to me, so if you see something contradictory spring up just let me know and I'll go make it sensical.
ANYWAY.
There have always been people who felt the issue of offerings that run counter to the principles of RAINN needed bringing up. While we were multi-charity, my rule was always that it's not my place to get involved with what people choose to offer unless it's illegal, and if anyone feels strongly enough, they need to open up a discussion on the comm. This obviously never happened, but as we're now RAINN-centric ... yeah, I think it needs looking at and here we are.
I'm not even going to put it to poll right now, because I think (hope) a discussion would be more beneficial first. So, would it be possible for us to have a non-flamey back and forth about it? I know this is a deeply touchy subject at the best of times and I want to make it clear that this is 100% about the objective appropriateness of having these fics/vids/etc in this particular auction and that's all - what consenting adults write/vid/etc about other consenting adults doing behind closed doors ... or in chevy impalas, whatever ... is all good and so not the point. If you want to rail against the genres, you need to not comment. If you want to rail against people who rail against the genres, you also need to not comment. Railing of any kind, right out.
We went eight auctions drahma free, we can manage another one, right? RIGHT?! (Don't worry, if we end up on fandom_wank I will a) wave to my mother and b) shut this auction down so fast the server will have a strange, empty sensation).
I also want to make it clear that I have no intention of overruling the majority here - it's your auction as much as mine and I don't roll that way. Plus I genuinely don't think it's a good plan for me to start policing things. Apart from anything, it would make me The Man and I don't have the hair for it.
I will get us started, though. Off the top of my head:
Pros
These fics/vids/etc have brought in in a great deal of donations for people - they've made real lives better.
It's fictional. It's not real. Sometimes it's even therapeutic.
Cons
There is no little weird having the 'cest, dub-con and abuse in an auction for The Rape, Abuse & Incest National Network.
Those who support RAINN often do so for personal reasons, it may be triggery for them.
Possible Compromise
It's not like the these only genres to write/vid/etc!
Bidders and Tarts work it out themselves off-site, in much the same way as renegotiated deadlines or tweaked goodie offers.
If anyone wants my opinion, for what it's worth, here it finally is: I think at the end of the day it comes down the same way as the switching "Charity Ho" for "Sweet Tarts" did - no one felt as strongly about keeping the name as others did about losing it. Keeping it was fun but, losing it made people happier and brought more people on board. More people involved, RAINN gets more help, we did what we set out to do and win forever.
My Pollyanna, let me show you it.
Edit
I just wanted to thank everyone who's commented so far so much for their responses and thoughts, and complete lack of heavy artillery. How are you so awesome? SERIOUSLY. I know you're all fantastic, I know it, and yet I had some concerns there would be fire. Lots of fire. And there is no fire!
It's looking, right now, like - as figured - there are compelling reasons to keep the genres in and compelling reasons to take them out. I'm hoping I can distract you all with Elvis sightings planning to put a poll up tomorrow drawing on some of the ideas in here and ... maybe we can go from there?
At the end of the day, even if we go on as we have and absolutely nothing changes, we've discussed it, we've reasoned through it .... and we're doing it because we've decided to and not because it's the way we've always done it. Thank you.
Okie! I think we've covered this pretty well and, at this point, I think we'll veer more into harm than help to keep going. As it's already upset people, that's more than enough (I'm so sorry, guys). So, I'm going to be closing this topic now. This is not the iron boot of authority stamping down, if you want to email or message me you're absolutely welcome to.
As an overview, I think what's come out of this is that the pros of the fics/vids/etc do outweigh the cons, and not just on a purely fiscal or freedom-of-speech level: they help people. That's all they need to do. Ever. The rest is noise.
However, we do need to look at how we present them on the site to minimise the impact on people it doesn't help, because that's obviously equally as important and that's what the poll will be about tomorrow.
The FAQ, it liiiiiiiiives. If anyone(s) would be willing to give it a quick read for a) making any sense at all and b) seeing if I've missed obvious questions, they would be shiny and awesome. I don't really want to start linking to it from the front page and then have to change it, that way lies confusion.
I was reminded of something while writing the FAQ. Okay, here goes. Incest. *lightning flashes, wolves howl*
This includes the Wincest, the ... twincest? Other 'cest! 'Cest in general. Except when Greek Gods are involved, possibly. IDEK.
It's also been pointed out that dub-con, non-con and similar types of fic with interesting nomenclature, not exactly the most appropriate things in the world either. I'm kind of tweaking this post as people point things out to me, so if you see something contradictory spring up just let me know and I'll go make it sensical.
ANYWAY.
There have always been people who felt the issue of offerings that run counter to the principles of RAINN needed bringing up. While we were multi-charity, my rule was always that it's not my place to get involved with what people choose to offer unless it's illegal, and if anyone feels strongly enough, they need to open up a discussion on the comm. This obviously never happened, but as we're now RAINN-centric ... yeah, I think it needs looking at and here we are.
I'm not even going to put it to poll right now, because I think (hope) a discussion would be more beneficial first. So, would it be possible for us to have a non-flamey back and forth about it? I know this is a deeply touchy subject at the best of times and I want to make it clear that this is 100% about the objective appropriateness of having these fics/vids/etc in this particular auction and that's all - what consenting adults write/vid/etc about other consenting adults doing behind closed doors ... or in chevy impalas, whatever ... is all good and so not the point. If you want to rail against the genres, you need to not comment. If you want to rail against people who rail against the genres, you also need to not comment. Railing of any kind, right out.
We went eight auctions drahma free, we can manage another one, right? RIGHT?! (Don't worry, if we end up on fandom_wank I will a) wave to my mother and b) shut this auction down so fast the server will have a strange, empty sensation).
I also want to make it clear that I have no intention of overruling the majority here - it's your auction as much as mine and I don't roll that way. Plus I genuinely don't think it's a good plan for me to start policing things. Apart from anything, it would make me The Man and I don't have the hair for it.
I will get us started, though. Off the top of my head:
Pros
These fics/vids/etc have brought in in a great deal of donations for people - they've made real lives better.
It's fictional. It's not real. Sometimes it's even therapeutic.
Cons
There is no little weird having the 'cest, dub-con and abuse in an auction for The Rape, Abuse & Incest National Network.
Those who support RAINN often do so for personal reasons, it may be triggery for them.
Possible Compromise
It's not like the these only genres to write/vid/etc!
Bidders and Tarts work it out themselves off-site, in much the same way as renegotiated deadlines or tweaked goodie offers.
If anyone wants my opinion, for what it's worth, here it finally is: I think at the end of the day it comes down the same way as the switching "Charity Ho" for "Sweet Tarts" did - no one felt as strongly about keeping the name as others did about losing it. Keeping it was fun but, losing it made people happier and brought more people on board. More people involved, RAINN gets more help, we did what we set out to do and win forever.
My Pollyanna, let me show you it.
Edit
I just wanted to thank everyone who's commented so far so much for their responses and thoughts, and complete lack of heavy artillery. How are you so awesome? SERIOUSLY. I know you're all fantastic, I know it, and yet I had some concerns there would be fire. Lots of fire. And there is no fire!
It's looking, right now, like - as figured - there are compelling reasons to keep the genres in and compelling reasons to take them out. I'm hoping I can distract you all with Elvis sightings planning to put a poll up tomorrow drawing on some of the ideas in here and ... maybe we can go from there?
At the end of the day, even if we go on as we have and absolutely nothing changes, we've discussed it, we've reasoned through it .... and we're doing it because we've decided to and not because it's the way we've always done it. Thank you.