THATS my idea of Equality

Sep 14, 2006 16:17

article

  • In which linda claims that a woman with a masters from harvard is fucking wasted being a stay at home mom.
Yes. No duh. Thank you! First time I head someone saying/writing this.

  • She also writes that being a stay at home mom is not intellectually fufilling.
 Feels so politically incorrect to even agree with this but I do. I've never ( Read more... )

politics, rant

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spookycat4 December 5 2006, 10:29:45 UTC
I hope you meant what you said about liking good debates in the other post. LOL

First, I agree with you (sucks, huh) about women (mostly) going into liberal arts, without really knowing why. It's foolish and a waste of your parent's dollars (usually) to go to college with no realistic chance of using your ridiculously overpriced degree when you graduate.

OK, that was the happy campers portion of the post. Here's the part where I disagree vigorously and hopefully, intelligently.

Stay at home moms, even those with Master's Degrees from Harvard are doing an incredibly important job, that only they can do. Do you think only uneducated women should raise their own children? I thought feminism was supposed to be about giving women real options. I thought it was supposed to be about allowing women to choose for themselves. A lot of women have never forgiven Hilary Clinton for embodying the attitude I read in your post. In my own words, "Women have the right to choose to work or stay at home. But, how could any woman not want to use her education in the workplace? What's wrong with them, not to see there is more value in working?"

The attitude that working women are the "elite" and stay at home moms are wasting their education doesn't recognize the very real need of mothers and children for one another. It's not glamorous. It's not prestigious. It's just biological. I *WANTED* to be with my babies (not that I have a degree from Harvard, or even the local community college) when I had them. The thought of going back to work when my daughter turned six weeks old and my paid maternity leave was up, had me in tears. I just couldn't bear the thought of driving away and letting someone else do the things she needed for nine hours every day.

The Harvard Master's Degree isn't going to waste if the mom decides to take some time off and stay home to raise the kids. (Or the dad, if that's the couple's choice.) It's part of who mom is. If she has a daughter, it's an incredible gift to that child. "I chose you over a career I love." It truly empowers that daughter to choose her own path later in life.

The attitude that being a stay at home mom is wasting yourself, if you're well-educated, completely ignores the value of raising children. Those tiny people do not come knowing right from wrong or good from bad. They need comfort and love and security and someone to teach them how to be a decent person. They need someone to teach them how to bathe and wipe their own butts. They need someone to encourage them and to support them. They need someone to discipline them. For the early years of their life, they need someone with them constantly. And, much to the chagrin of some feminists, a lot of times, even well-educated mothers want to be the person doing that incredibly important job.

For me, it's about real choices. And, the funny thing about choices, is that some people are going to make a different choice than I would. I don't think they're somehow less intelligent or rational than I do. I don't think they're misguided. I don't hold myself as superior over them, because they think differently. I don't label myself and the people who think like I do, "elite" and the people who think differently as, what?

I'm not the most educated person in the world, but I do recognize condescension when I see it.

Kim

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surreul January 28 2007, 20:05:02 UTC
My sincerest apologies for taking so ridiculously long to respond to this. I can only hope that you have not completely written me off and are still willing to engage in debate. I was insanely busy at the time but since after the holidays I simply have no excuse for not responding promptly. I promise to be better in the future!

First, I am being condescending, it is condescending to tell anyone what to do, that doesn't mean that I am not right. :)

"Stay at home moms, even those with Master's Degrees from Harvard are doing an incredibly important job, that only they can do."

That's simply not true. This is exactly why I was so happy to see this article, because of the politically incorrect but reality based truth that almost anyone can do the job of taking care of a baby. You have to clean it and feed it and not abuse it. Some loving or at least affectionate contact is also important. Everything else is just frills. It's important in the sense that in order for society to continue to function it needs to be done but it's a low skills job, which is one of the reasons it doesn't pay well.

Ouch, comment got too long. Continues below.

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spookycat4 January 28 2007, 21:11:34 UTC
I'm so glad you commented. And, I love that it's intelligent and thoughtful and totally in disagreement with me.

The attitude that everything else is just frills, is why I think feminism will never truly be embraced by average women. I just think it's dismissive of how important mothers (and fathers) are in the development of a child. Keeping society functioning is not the only thing mothers do. And, their are things only a mother can do. Nursing (unless you hire a wetnurse), is one. Nursing offers a variety of benefits to both mother and child. And, mothers have a bond with their infants that a low-skilled worker simply can't duplicate and probably won't want to.

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surreul January 28 2007, 22:28:16 UTC
I absolutely agree that a mother (or a parental figure, or several such figures) are incredibly important to a child's development. I don't think it's a disputed point that most children without love and caring in their lives don't grow up well. I just don't think it's necessary to be with a child all day long to be a loving influence and have a bond. I think that's proven by many children of working moms and working dads.

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surreul January 28 2007, 20:05:32 UTC
Teaching right and wrong etc. is different and isn't taught by being with the child 24/7 but through observation of the parents and environment and yes time spent together, but working parents do spend time with children. As a study in Freakonomics pointed out it turns out to be much more important who you are rather then what you do in how your children turn out. Children are smart and observe, it's not what you say but how you behave that's most important. (This isn't me saying there are no advantages to a stay at home parent - but that's a different debate that's been overdone already and I refuse to go there).

Also, I am not debating that some women do not want to stay home and be with their children, I'm just saying it's a waste and bad for feminism. Anyone with high skills who spends all their time at a low skills job is 'wasting' themselves. This doesn't become important to society as a whole unless that person is part of an oppressed class, in which case wasting yourself hurts your group as a whole because you're depriving them of a. an example, and b. a person of their group being in a position of power. In the case of women you are contributing to the perception that women simply don't want high powered careers because you had the opportunity for one (a rare opportunity) and then opted out.

Can you honestly say that you don't think the fact that our government and business elites are dominated by men hurts women's issues? If you think it does - then elite women who opt out are hurting feminism.

A personal note about the perceived condemnation of women who chose not to work (once again this applies mostly to elite women in the first place): I tend to believe that a person's priority should be themselves. So if it hurts feminism but will make me happy I am likely to make the choice that makes me happy and I do not in the least fault women who make that same choice. However, I think it's wrong not to acknowledge that you are hurting feminism when you make that choice. Let's be honest and at least that way we won't be twisting feminism out of all recognition. It does baffle me on a personal level how someone very intelligent can be happy without using their intelligence, but I am not denying that it is perfectly possible. (On a frivolous and silly note: high heels are for various reasons anti feminist, but I am not about to give them up because of the sheer pleasure I take from them).

"I don't label myself and the people who think like I do, "elite" and the people who think differently as, what?"

?what? I'm not labeling people who think as I do as "elite". In fact I'm talking about elite women who obviously disagree with me! I'm (and the author of the article) using the word 'elite' the way it has always been used, to refer to a small group of people that have more power, more wealth and more choices then the rest of the population.

One last point women who are not elite have a much bigger chance of hurting themselves when they choose to stay home. Elite women are probably going to be financially independent no matter what. An average women will sacrifice her financial independence and thus a lot of power by staying home, this chance her being in a terrible situation in cases of divorce.

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