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[supes12587]

alright so i was reading this board right, on slc punk and it got into the arguement of what the true punk is. some of the posters believed it was a fashion thing from the 70's. other more idealistic posters believed that it was an attitude, a way of life, and that style and labels didn't matter... now there's the problem of course. in saying that

Comments

[somahoiiday]

I believe that our current establishment does not have the peoples interests in mind, they have their own and their corporate sponsors. If government can vote to give pharmaceutical companies legal immunity in the patriot act how can we pretend they care about us?
Back to El Salvador, before the Spaniards conquered them in 1524 the people had Ejidos. These Ejidos were communally owned plots of land where food was produced to feed the community and there was no established authority. This enabled the community to take care of its own. However, after El Salvador was conquered (and particularly after the industrial revolution and the boom of capitalism) coffee production was forcefully regulated by the government, and if an Ejido refused to grow coffee their land was taken away. If the Ejido did elect to follow this regulation they were unable to grow their food and the coffee plant took 3 years before it would yield a crop, so the people had no money and no food. This shows that the governments are no longer concerned with the needs of individuals and their need to product their self sustaining crops.
Anyways, this is just a few reasons as to why I decided this was the most ethical way for people to live. I hope you dont find any of this coercive or condescending, because none of it was intended that way. Im really crappy at articulating this (and pretty must ALL) subject. If you are interested I would suggest checking out www.infoshop.org/faq/index.html. That site is very good at communicating the fundamental questions people have about Anarchism.

[little_nicola]

The thing is that it is not that I hold the opinion that anarchy will always lead to chaos, as most public interpretations of anarchy would lead one to think. It is more that I feel that government, though there really terrible examples of corruption in EVERY form of government in EVERY country in the world, can provide so much for people. The mere fact that an ineffective government is detrimental to a person's life shows how much people rely on it to fulfill their basic needs--- and though they can do terrible things and have comepletely backwards priorities, government can do a lot of good. Yes, you are right, there is no perfect government-- that any form of government can look great on paper but can never translate perfectly into actual application. Yet aren't communism and anarchy unicorns as well? Trust me, communism would be great, but, as many people have said, and though I have tried to think of any way for communism to work, bc it is afterall the system that really instills the most trust and faith into human kind, it cannot work in its purest form. And niether can anarchy. Believe me, I think it would be great if nothing belonged to anyone-- I actually sort of believe that anyway, being s semi-devotee of Hare Krsna-- but, we cant just not have any government and not have any society/hierarchy--- Look at Romania after the fall of the Soviet Union. Everything suddenly feel, and Romania is still gettign over it, and then so many people became homeless, especially thousands of children in Bucharest, etc.

I completely agree that our government is corrupt (trust me-- I know all too well about pharmecudical comanies and the corruption involved with them- my parents actually rallied against the Homeland Security Act and its secret provisions to protect pharmecudical comapnies. Speaking of which, if you can, you should read Evidence of Harm by David Kirby, its a book about my parenents and other "mercury Parents" and their fight for the rights of those injured by vaccines. I think you would be one of my only friends who would really appreciate it) And I completely agree that every other government in the world is corruot (some more so that others, of course). But I guess I just don't think that, just bc something doesnt work, we should move towards removing it entirely. I still believe, and maybe this is just my upbringing, with my parents being lobbysists, that you can change the system from the inside. I think about this a lot, bc I really want to change the world-- and couldnt figure out if I should be on the path where I lie out of the system, become, say, an anarchist, and rally for popular support of my ideas-- or should I make my beliefs my work and change the system from the inside. The pro to the first is that I will always be able to live completely by my ideas. the pro to the second is that I could probably institute more change, but I might have to comprimise something....

[little_nicola]

...So, well, maybe to summarize it all--- I understand the reasoning for anrachy--- but I just feel it is less responsible. I am not so opposed to anarchy so much as I think there could be a better solution to things. We can argue for anarchy and not have to rely on the government and protest and all that-- bc we have the power and affluence to do so-- but we have to consider how much change that can really cause. What about the people who rely on the government every day? What about people who don't have the financial stability to truly be independent or even be aware of the problems facing the world? I feel like anarchy ultimately leaves them out. You might say the redistribution of wealth could fix this, but, just as not everyone can become a vegetarian, not everyone will subscribe to anrachy or to communism. It will never fully occur. And we will basically fuck over someone somewhere. For me, I feel the better route is attempting to fix our current system, and perhaps being one of the few people in government who DOES care about its people.

I hope that explains something... I am really sleepy so I was rambling. But it was really great to actually have this conversation with you-- as it is really rare for me to find someone who enjoys this as much as I do. Plus I kind of love you. (Dont be mad at me! You rent, are you? I was just assuming you liked this kind of discussion)

And I will look at that site tomorrow. It all seems very interesting, and I do want to keep an open mind about things.:)

Oh yeah I got your comment about the class at UNCG I actually wrote it down-- so when I go to SOAR I can see if I can sign up for it :)