Well duh. Because nothing productive can come of random chats with people. Ahaahaha. That's only half sarcasm. Half the time I'm just talking shit to kill time and catch up. Productive on a personal level but not so much on a...productive level.
I feel like at some point you need to stop writing the detailed outline and just write the actual novel. I mean it probably makes sense for people who write insane novels with 50 parts and an entire universe of characters. I can't imagine what George RR Martin's process must be for the Song of Ice and Fire series. Probably a novel in and of itself. I wonder if Stephen King writes outlines. His novels are always so long.
Is the fate horrible because you would be a character in the Hobbit or because you get killed at the end?
I think I kind of have it worked out now. It was more a plot issue. Because the point was that everyone's scrambling to find this legendary power source or some sort but I can't figure out what that power is, why anyone would want it, and where it's located. Or the nature of why it would be important. It's like when people go, "El Dorado!" but you have to decide what they want from there. The Gold? Or maybe there's some sort of ancient talisman that is worth millions or will imbue with the powers of a God. These things are important. And then I have to decide where it came from and why because otherwise it's just a stupid McGuffin. McGuffins can be useful but other times they're one huge cop out.
Although I do need to think carefully about the motivations of the characters themselves too. Right now I have an idea of what my villain is up to by I want to think harder about why they're doing it. It's important not to veer into cliche realm with these things but it's also soooo easy to just fall back on standard tropes. They're mad for power! They want to rule the world! But that is so boring. T_T;;;;; I think a lot of the problem is that I sort of build stories around the characters I want to write. I think to myself, "I want to write a story where the hero is a teenage girl" and then I figure out what kind of story I can write around someone like that. The problem with that is I just want to write about the person but don't care necessarily what's happening plot wise. And then when I do think of something it runs away from me and turns into this crazy complicated storyline that wasn't at all what I'd intended.
I always worry my writing is just stewing in some kind of weird masturbatory dungeon. I hardly share it at all and all I have to go on is how much it does or doesn't sucks compared to people i actually like to read.
Post-apocalyptic is always fun. Dystopias and weird sad worlds. I'm definitely interested in reading more. What kind of serial killer do you have exactly?
Well that's just it: it's productive in lots of ways EXCEPT for the one I need, which is in the "actually getting things written" category.
Yeah, if George R. R. Martin didn't have an outline for that series, he'd be dead in the water. I can't imagine keeping all of those places and people and histories straight. You'd have to screw it up eventually, and then it would be a bear to try to clean up in revises. I think in Stephen King's book "On Writing" he says that he doesn't outline because it kills his books, but that could just be bullshit. I find it hard to believe he goes into each of those books totally blind (at least, most of the time I find it hard to believe. I think it's totally possible for the train wreck that was "Tommyknockers").
The fate would be horrible because I'd be a dragon. Also, a character in the Hobbit. Also because I'd get killed at the end. Basically, it's bad news all around.
Oh yeah, that makes sense. I hate it when I realize that I've build my whole plot around something that doesn't really look all that appealing (or make that much sense) in the end. Like, "wait, why is everybody scrambling around for this thing again? Why don't they just give it up and go get a burger?" I've been struggling with the same thing with DC....well, mostly the same. A big hurdle in the outlining was just figuring out why my protagonist should stay in the story at all, and not bail at the first sign of trouble. Because you know in those horror movies when you say to yourself: "but why don't they just LEAVE? Wouldn't all of this be solved if they just walked away?"
I think that if you have a good villain and a good grasp of what they want, you're well on your way to being totally set with the book. Because a strong villain really makes a novel worth reading sometimes--they act as kind of a proxy for the author, fucking things up for the protagonist and making things interesting. There's nothing wrong with writing about characters, either. A character-driven book is almost always more interesting than a plot-driven one, at least in my opinion. There's more you can do with it. And it seems to me that it's easier to fix issues with plot in revises than issues with character. The one is like rebuilding roads; the other's like, I dunno, clearing your way through the thicket to make a road in the first place. Or something. The metaphor sort of broke down there.
Oh my god, yes. Masturbatory story dungeon, where you're like: "I dunno. I think it's good." But it's all inbred mutants down there with flippers for hands and stuff because you're not getting any fresh perspectives. Or, at least, that's what I think my stuff's like.
"Weird sad worlds." I like that. And yeah, I'd never really considered writing a post-apocalyptic novel, and then when I did I really really enjoyed it. To the point where I have to resist the urge just to dive headfirst into that universe and neglect everything else.
I can't say too much about the serial killer (because I've really already given too much away by even mentioning that there is one), but it's actually probably the least gruesome part about the book. It's all just kidnapping and killing, quick and clean, and it's mostly unconfirmed--a lot of urban legends, campfire stories, and unexplained disappearances.
Maybe King does something that isn't outlining but is something similar? Because a lot of times I like to just write out the plot of my stories from beginning to end and then write character profiles and that's it. Or maybe he says it into a tape recorder. Or tapes it onto his house pets. He has to do some kind of planning though. I mean. That or he's just really really really talented. Which couldn't possibly be a thing. Him being Stephen King and all..............
Yeah I feel like that a lot of horror stuff. Like what keeps these people here? In some haunted house situations that means they're trapped IN the house and half of it is trying to get out of the stupid house. But in the case of American Horror Story? Where you keep wondering why don't they leave? Or like when they say the house has been up for sale a million times and people keep getting killed in it and you have to think, "who keeps putting this house back up for sale? WHO!?" So yeah you have to create a certain type of character who is just insane enough to subject themselves to this sort of madness and then give them the right motivation to keep going. Or else it doesn't make sense and you end up another one of those assholes who ignore sense in order to just make something happen.
I know what you're talking about though. Character issues sometimes means you have to comb through an entire book just to make all the necessary fixes but a plot problem can sometimes be fixed with just a simple scene inserted in the right place. Plus sometimes fixing character motivations means having to change plot points and whatever. Writing books is complicated. Which is why I don't share them. Like half the time I read back on things I left sitting around for a few months and I just hate everything. And even if I did like it, I can almost guarantee that with enough time I will come to think it's terrible.
But at the same time I'll think something is a great idea to write a book on. Then someone else gets their hands on it and they'd probably think it was really stupid and cliche. They'll be like, "why is everyone annoying and why does it sound like it was written by a 3rd grader?" Which is probably why I hate sharing with people. I'd rather just think I'm kind of ok and pretend like everyone else would agree and not break my lovely bubble of delusions. Which for me is easy since I'm not really looking to get published. For you it's a bit more difficult to pull off.
Creating your own world in general is fun. You can make up your own rules instead of conforming to whatever rules set by modern society or some other historical society. Because when you try and ground it in the real world you ultimately have to make people buy that it's set in the real world. That's not easy to do unless you're one of those people that just sticks with some random small town modeled exactly after the towns you're familiar with. But what if I want to write about the jungles of India? Well more than likely I'd just sound like a clueless asshole. Ahahaaha. But if I make stuff up? So much easier.
I like that the serial killer is the least gruesome part of your book.
I feel like at some point you need to stop writing the detailed outline and just write the actual novel. I mean it probably makes sense for people who write insane novels with 50 parts and an entire universe of characters. I can't imagine what George RR Martin's process must be for the Song of Ice and Fire series. Probably a novel in and of itself. I wonder if Stephen King writes outlines. His novels are always so long.
Is the fate horrible because you would be a character in the Hobbit or because you get killed at the end?
I think I kind of have it worked out now. It was more a plot issue. Because the point was that everyone's scrambling to find this legendary power source or some sort but I can't figure out what that power is, why anyone would want it, and where it's located. Or the nature of why it would be important. It's like when people go, "El Dorado!" but you have to decide what they want from there. The Gold? Or maybe there's some sort of ancient talisman that is worth millions or will imbue with the powers of a God. These things are important. And then I have to decide where it came from and why because otherwise it's just a stupid McGuffin. McGuffins can be useful but other times they're one huge cop out.
Although I do need to think carefully about the motivations of the characters themselves too. Right now I have an idea of what my villain is up to by I want to think harder about why they're doing it. It's important not to veer into cliche realm with these things but it's also soooo easy to just fall back on standard tropes. They're mad for power! They want to rule the world! But that is so boring. T_T;;;;; I think a lot of the problem is that I sort of build stories around the characters I want to write. I think to myself, "I want to write a story where the hero is a teenage girl" and then I figure out what kind of story I can write around someone like that. The problem with that is I just want to write about the person but don't care necessarily what's happening plot wise. And then when I do think of something it runs away from me and turns into this crazy complicated storyline that wasn't at all what I'd intended.
I always worry my writing is just stewing in some kind of weird masturbatory dungeon. I hardly share it at all and all I have to go on is how much it does or doesn't sucks compared to people i actually like to read.
Post-apocalyptic is always fun. Dystopias and weird sad worlds. I'm definitely interested in reading more. What kind of serial killer do you have exactly?
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Yeah, if George R. R. Martin didn't have an outline for that series, he'd be dead in the water. I can't imagine keeping all of those places and people and histories straight. You'd have to screw it up eventually, and then it would be a bear to try to clean up in revises. I think in Stephen King's book "On Writing" he says that he doesn't outline because it kills his books, but that could just be bullshit. I find it hard to believe he goes into each of those books totally blind (at least, most of the time I find it hard to believe. I think it's totally possible for the train wreck that was "Tommyknockers").
The fate would be horrible because I'd be a dragon. Also, a character in the Hobbit. Also because I'd get killed at the end. Basically, it's bad news all around.
Oh yeah, that makes sense. I hate it when I realize that I've build my whole plot around something that doesn't really look all that appealing (or make that much sense) in the end. Like, "wait, why is everybody scrambling around for this thing again? Why don't they just give it up and go get a burger?" I've been struggling with the same thing with DC....well, mostly the same. A big hurdle in the outlining was just figuring out why my protagonist should stay in the story at all, and not bail at the first sign of trouble. Because you know in those horror movies when you say to yourself: "but why don't they just LEAVE? Wouldn't all of this be solved if they just walked away?"
I think that if you have a good villain and a good grasp of what they want, you're well on your way to being totally set with the book. Because a strong villain really makes a novel worth reading sometimes--they act as kind of a proxy for the author, fucking things up for the protagonist and making things interesting. There's nothing wrong with writing about characters, either. A character-driven book is almost always more interesting than a plot-driven one, at least in my opinion. There's more you can do with it. And it seems to me that it's easier to fix issues with plot in revises than issues with character. The one is like rebuilding roads; the other's like, I dunno, clearing your way through the thicket to make a road in the first place. Or something. The metaphor sort of broke down there.
Oh my god, yes. Masturbatory story dungeon, where you're like: "I dunno. I think it's good." But it's all inbred mutants down there with flippers for hands and stuff because you're not getting any fresh perspectives. Or, at least, that's what I think my stuff's like.
"Weird sad worlds." I like that. And yeah, I'd never really considered writing a post-apocalyptic novel, and then when I did I really really enjoyed it. To the point where I have to resist the urge just to dive headfirst into that universe and neglect everything else.
I can't say too much about the serial killer (because I've really already given too much away by even mentioning that there is one), but it's actually probably the least gruesome part about the book. It's all just kidnapping and killing, quick and clean, and it's mostly unconfirmed--a lot of urban legends, campfire stories, and unexplained disappearances.
Reply
Yeah I feel like that a lot of horror stuff. Like what keeps these people here? In some haunted house situations that means they're trapped IN the house and half of it is trying to get out of the stupid house. But in the case of American Horror Story? Where you keep wondering why don't they leave? Or like when they say the house has been up for sale a million times and people keep getting killed in it and you have to think, "who keeps putting this house back up for sale? WHO!?" So yeah you have to create a certain type of character who is just insane enough to subject themselves to this sort of madness and then give them the right motivation to keep going. Or else it doesn't make sense and you end up another one of those assholes who ignore sense in order to just make something happen.
I know what you're talking about though. Character issues sometimes means you have to comb through an entire book just to make all the necessary fixes but a plot problem can sometimes be fixed with just a simple scene inserted in the right place. Plus sometimes fixing character motivations means having to change plot points and whatever. Writing books is complicated. Which is why I don't share them. Like half the time I read back on things I left sitting around for a few months and I just hate everything. And even if I did like it, I can almost guarantee that with enough time I will come to think it's terrible.
But at the same time I'll think something is a great idea to write a book on. Then someone else gets their hands on it and they'd probably think it was really stupid and cliche. They'll be like, "why is everyone annoying and why does it sound like it was written by a 3rd grader?" Which is probably why I hate sharing with people. I'd rather just think I'm kind of ok and pretend like everyone else would agree and not break my lovely bubble of delusions. Which for me is easy since I'm not really looking to get published. For you it's a bit more difficult to pull off.
Creating your own world in general is fun. You can make up your own rules instead of conforming to whatever rules set by modern society or some other historical society. Because when you try and ground it in the real world you ultimately have to make people buy that it's set in the real world. That's not easy to do unless you're one of those people that just sticks with some random small town modeled exactly after the towns you're familiar with. But what if I want to write about the jungles of India? Well more than likely I'd just sound like a clueless asshole. Ahahaaha. But if I make stuff up? So much easier.
I like that the serial killer is the least gruesome part of your book.
Reply
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