wish that they had been able to examine a little more of the Will-Peter dichotomy actually in how Alicia's relationships with those men help and hinder her -- I mean, obviously they spent a lot of time on it, but what I mean is there are *SPECIFIC* issues that they could have dwelt on more, like, for example, if Will would have to ask Alicia for favours from Peter more, or the extent to which Alicia needs to be on good terms with both men in order to keep her place at LG secure. I mean, it sort of went there. I'm not sure exactly what I want that I didn't get.
No, I know what you mean. The Peter/Alicia/Will dynamic and how it relates with romance and her career is really explored- but yeah, there's some honest dimension that's missing. For me, it's that when Alicia is actively fighting with one guy, she's cozy and getting favors from the other. While Will's alive, we never quite see exactly what Alicia is made of as Our Heroine or more pointedly, we never see the converse of how she relies on at least one guy in her corner at all times by seeing her unable to call on/use both for help. If Will is painted as pointedly mean, suddenly Peter gets warmed and fuzzied up to be Alicia's guy.
Even though Alicia's the main character, she still doesn't get a story as interesting as supporting!Joan in S5 when Joan's had it with being Roger's Rich Man's Mistress and she's finally thrown Greg out.
Agree on Willow vs. Buffy and Arya. The real issue is that Willow did not particularly feel she had a life before Buffy's arrival, as you say. Willow *is* ambivalent, even from "The Pack," about Buffy's arrival and what it means, but the biggest thing that she was conscious of losing is Xander. (Well, "and Jesse" if we take that on board. Jesse occupies not much space in my headcanon, to be honest.)
I agree with this too, especially how Willow mainly feels losing Xander and Jesse isn't a big part of my pre-series head-canon. TBH, my main head canon for Jesse is that there were times that Xander was insensitive and gravitated to Jesse even though Willow was his true best friend and that was a part of Willow's pre-series insecurity and part of why Xander, despite his home insecurity, was more surface at-ease socially. Other than that, I have little use for pre-series Jesse to screw with my Xander/Willow =BFF opinions or as some stick to beat Xander/Willow/Joss Whedon for their The Harvest reactions by viewing him as super meaningful, although I get the impulse.
You know, I could see S1 Arya having fun if Ned figured out that he was a target and he gathered up Arya and Sansa to run away and hide out in the woods to make a perilous, adventure filled journey back up to Winterfell. Sansa'd hate it and Ned would be too clued into the danger and the loss of his position enjoy himself, but Arya could really like adventure if she just had her family alive and she convinced herself that the rest of her family was safe at home base of Winterfell. It's just how the murder of her father inaugurated her life as a boy-soldier that destroyed the whole life from the get-go.
Willow is much the same way. I don't want to underrate what losing Jenny meant to Willow, but Jenny died in school doing a computer project. Her motive was evil-fighty but she didn't die in action. It was just a much a cautionary tale to protect civilians doing peaceful activities in Sunnydale human turf as any Student Death #3432. Willow starts having regrets about The Life when Buffy died and then is filled with regret over their war when Tara dies because Tara stays dead. Willow really can't be all, "And that all worked out OK!" ala Angel about deaths that stick.
It occurs to me that "I have no grace" is also kind of in the "a girl lacks honour" category.
Oh hey, I just found this out, did you know that Joss stated in the Serenity Visual Companion that the book he read immediately after The Killer Angels, which *also* inspired Firefly, was a book about Jewish Resistance Fighters in WW2? I know we can interpret this as PROBLEMATIC but I think it's more that there are genuinely heroic aspects of the Serenity crew's rebellion (esp. when it comes to sheltering the Tams) in addition to the more ambiguous civil war stuff.
I didn't know that. Actually, I don't even want to be the girl who cries out Problematic but I'd be cooler if Serenity was inspired just by WWII resistance fighters than particularly Jewish resistance fighters. I agree that there were heroic aspects to the Serenity crew, but no one but River was being hunted for their intrinsic qualities since birth and yeah, the conflict in Firefly didn't seem nearly as morally clear-cut as WWII.
Although, I don't find the Jewish resistance fighters as obnoxious as comparing the outer planets + Serenity crew to the American Confederacy without any evidence of racial slavery en masse. And the Serenity crew diametrically opposed to any slavery that they encountered from a particular planet- i.e. Jaynestown. IMO, the Serenity crew aren't quite Jewish resistance fighters but they're closer to the former than the American Confederacy!
No, I know what you mean. The Peter/Alicia/Will dynamic and how it relates with romance and her career is really explored- but yeah, there's some honest dimension that's missing. For me, it's that when Alicia is actively fighting with one guy, she's cozy and getting favors from the other. While Will's alive, we never quite see exactly what Alicia is made of as Our Heroine or more pointedly, we never see the converse of how she relies on at least one guy in her corner at all times by seeing her unable to call on/use both for help. If Will is painted as pointedly mean, suddenly Peter gets warmed and fuzzied up to be Alicia's guy.
Even though Alicia's the main character, she still doesn't get a story as interesting as supporting!Joan in S5 when Joan's had it with being Roger's Rich Man's Mistress and she's finally thrown Greg out.
Ha, I think that's exactly it. And while Alicia can reject Peter (to different degrees) after Will's death, she still "gets to" idealize her/Will and see him as the one that got away, rather than someone she actively has to choose to keep away from permanently while also avoiding Peter. I don't actually think that her whole story should be *only* rejecting both, but given how much focus those ships have on the show and on how Alicia defines herself (and how her career goes...) it is an omission that there is no period where that is true. I think that they missed the opportunity to have Alicia...totally on board with both guys. I think there were some periods where this was true-ish (where she was on okay terms with both).
In actuality there are three powerful men in Alicia's life consistently in the show (up until Will's death) (four if you count Eli who I don't because he's too closely associated with Peter, five if you count Zach because I don't think his hacking is at power levels yet, six if -- well anyway), where Cary is the third. And Cary is the one case where there's no romantic tension, and is probably the healthiest relationship. In a way Cary, Will and Peter all have different strengths and weaknesses (advantages/disadvantages) as lawyers but especially as men. I think the answer might be that if she were most distant from Will or Peter, she'd get cozier with Cary, not romantically but, well, what actually happened (merger).
No, I know what you mean. The Peter/Alicia/Will dynamic and how it relates with romance and her career is really explored- but yeah, there's some honest dimension that's missing. For me, it's that when Alicia is actively fighting with one guy, she's cozy and getting favors from the other. While Will's alive, we never quite see exactly what Alicia is made of as Our Heroine or more pointedly, we never see the converse of how she relies on at least one guy in her corner at all times by seeing her unable to call on/use both for help. If Will is painted as pointedly mean, suddenly Peter gets warmed and fuzzied up to be Alicia's guy.
Even though Alicia's the main character, she still doesn't get a story as interesting as supporting!Joan in S5 when Joan's had it with being Roger's Rich Man's Mistress and she's finally thrown Greg out.
Agree on Willow vs. Buffy and Arya. The real issue is that Willow did not particularly feel she had a life before Buffy's arrival, as you say. Willow *is* ambivalent, even from "The Pack," about Buffy's arrival and what it means, but the biggest thing that she was conscious of losing is Xander. (Well, "and Jesse" if we take that on board. Jesse occupies not much space in my headcanon, to be honest.)
I agree with this too, especially how Willow mainly feels losing Xander and Jesse isn't a big part of my pre-series head-canon. TBH, my main head canon for Jesse is that there were times that Xander was insensitive and gravitated to Jesse even though Willow was his true best friend and that was a part of Willow's pre-series insecurity and part of why Xander, despite his home insecurity, was more surface at-ease socially. Other than that, I have little use for pre-series Jesse to screw with my Xander/Willow =BFF opinions or as some stick to beat Xander/Willow/Joss Whedon for their The Harvest reactions by viewing him as super meaningful, although I get the impulse.
You know, I could see S1 Arya having fun if Ned figured out that he was a target and he gathered up Arya and Sansa to run away and hide out in the woods to make a perilous, adventure filled journey back up to Winterfell. Sansa'd hate it and Ned would be too clued into the danger and the loss of his position enjoy himself, but Arya could really like adventure if she just had her family alive and she convinced herself that the rest of her family was safe at home base of Winterfell. It's just how the murder of her father inaugurated her life as a boy-soldier that destroyed the whole life from the get-go.
Willow is much the same way. I don't want to underrate what losing Jenny meant to Willow, but Jenny died in school doing a computer project. Her motive was evil-fighty but she didn't die in action. It was just a much a cautionary tale to protect civilians doing peaceful activities in Sunnydale human turf as any Student Death #3432. Willow starts having regrets about The Life when Buffy died and then is filled with regret over their war when Tara dies because Tara stays dead. Willow really can't be all, "And that all worked out OK!" ala Angel about deaths that stick.
It occurs to me that "I have no grace" is also kind of in the "a girl lacks honour" category.
LOL.
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Oh hey, I just found this out, did you know that Joss stated in the Serenity Visual Companion that the book he read immediately after The Killer Angels, which *also* inspired Firefly, was a book about Jewish Resistance Fighters in WW2? I know we can interpret this as PROBLEMATIC but I think it's more that there are genuinely heroic aspects of the Serenity crew's rebellion (esp. when it comes to sheltering the Tams) in addition to the more ambiguous civil war stuff.
I didn't know that. Actually, I don't even want to be the girl who cries out Problematic but I'd be cooler if Serenity was inspired just by WWII resistance fighters than particularly Jewish resistance fighters. I agree that there were heroic aspects to the Serenity crew, but no one but River was being hunted for their intrinsic qualities since birth and yeah, the conflict in Firefly didn't seem nearly as morally clear-cut as WWII.
Although, I don't find the Jewish resistance fighters as obnoxious as comparing the outer planets + Serenity crew to the American Confederacy without any evidence of racial slavery en masse. And the Serenity crew diametrically opposed to any slavery that they encountered from a particular planet- i.e. Jaynestown. IMO, the Serenity crew aren't quite Jewish resistance fighters but they're closer to the former than the American Confederacy!
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Even though Alicia's the main character, she still doesn't get a story as interesting as supporting!Joan in S5 when Joan's had it with being Roger's Rich Man's Mistress and she's finally thrown Greg out.
Ha, I think that's exactly it. And while Alicia can reject Peter (to different degrees) after Will's death, she still "gets to" idealize her/Will and see him as the one that got away, rather than someone she actively has to choose to keep away from permanently while also avoiding Peter. I don't actually think that her whole story should be *only* rejecting both, but given how much focus those ships have on the show and on how Alicia defines herself (and how her career goes...) it is an omission that there is no period where that is true. I think that they missed the opportunity to have Alicia...totally on board with both guys. I think there were some periods where this was true-ish (where she was on okay terms with both).
In actuality there are three powerful men in Alicia's life consistently in the show (up until Will's death) (four if you count Eli who I don't because he's too closely associated with Peter, five if you count Zach because I don't think his hacking is at power levels yet, six if -- well anyway), where Cary is the third. And Cary is the one case where there's no romantic tension, and is probably the healthiest relationship. In a way Cary, Will and Peter all have different strengths and weaknesses (advantages/disadvantages) as lawyers but especially as men. I think the answer might be that if she were most distant from Will or Peter, she'd get cozier with Cary, not romantically but, well, what actually happened (merger).
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