"marry me a little"
*sigh* Last thing I expected, watching DW5, was to become a shipper.... ;) I think it's happened. "I WAS NOT EXPECTING THIS!" as the Doctor would say.
http://community.livejournal.com/doctoreleven/379354.html
Very nicely done essay on Doctor/River....and I heartily concur. In the comments, the poster who wrote the literary analysis of DW5 also ( Read more... )
But that's not what I was thinking about. I was thinking that I bet Moffat was thinking about how best to present a 51st century marriage, if marriage indeed still exists in the 51st century, or if it does, how it will have evolved beyond our current social constructs, just as we are now in the process of redefining marriage now that it has evolved in the west into a partnership of love between two people.
I'm going to go out on a limb and speculate that by the 51st century, marriage will still be something brought about by love and a desire for committment, but it won't necessarily involve traditional roles, nor will people necessarily live together as a matter of course, family raising and personal desires excepted, of course, and this is how the marriage of River Song and the Doctor will be played out. He always comes when she calls him, she sacrifices herself for him - they are a couple, but they aren't welded to each other, either, and each pursues his or her interests, as River does when she leads her expedition.
This could be the extrapolation of any modern couple, except that the extra dimension of time travel makes it so much more interesting. She will never grow old for him, or at least not as far as we know, but she also may be in love with more than one regeneration of the Doctor, which is where the essential commitment and love to the person, not the current 'face' makes this so very 51st century.
This is where it gets interesting because we really don't know what 51st century marriage looks like - whether it's a committment forever or a set time to be renewed if both partners agree, serial or linear, or how it plays out for people who have achieved star travel and presumably can lengthen their lives perhaps indefinitely, cloning themselves or regrowing body parts, or even an entire body if necessary. We don't even know that much about River - whether she is even human, or how old she is. In the 51st century, she could be 40 or 400, and so far closer to the Doctor in age and experience.
The more I think about it, the more fascinating this becomes, and the bigger the social/intellectual playground Moffat has given himself in River and the Doctor, because I think they will be a great love story of the 51st century.
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The most we've seen of 51st century mores has been Jack--and the writers really didn't get too far in exploring his culture. Not to mention that developing the 51st century society got overlaid by Jack's immortality and those complications. But the basis of Jack seemed to be that he was a sexually free being: no hangups regarding gender or species...no guilt or shame associated with sex. Which also meant that he viewed relationships quite happily: his partner(s) had to be willing and agreeable to fling, short-term, or long-term. Jack seemed to have a regard for commitment: he backed off when he learned about Rhys, for instance; he himself seemed to be monogamous for the length of whatever committed relationship he was in--his 20th century marriage, Estelle, Ianto.
So, maybe Moffat will utilize some of those ideas--especially since he was the one to lay the groundwork for Jack, and River does seem to share the carefree attitude of Moffat's Jack, what with her dating a Nestene construct....
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And, that pretty much puts 'paid' to the Fatal Attraction!River school of thought. Clearly, she's teasing and just as clearly she did date a Nestene, and so where's the crazed stalker? No family bunnies in the stewpot here, and there won't be, because all signs point to a love affair, but it hasn't started yet, although it did because we dipped in at the end, just like real time travelers.
Likewise, I don't believe River is Amy, the Rani, the Doctor, the Tardis or the Doctor's great aunt. I think she is a character in both senses of the word, someone larger than life who has lived her life all through the universe and thus earned enough street cred to make a Dalek beg for mercy after he looks her up.
There is every indication that she will share the same 51st century sexual mores as Jack and be unashamed of it, as well she shouldn't, but at some point in her life, she meets the Doctor and they are joined in however Moffat extrapolates 51st century committment, and whatever construct that takes will be fascinating, and will be sure to shake up some of the more hidebound among the fans, because I am willing to gamble my future DW5 DVD set that River is going to be as free as Jack, in her own way.
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Some of the stuff about River is just silly--like that. Some of it does indicate that thre are people who have issues with the idea of an independent, confident woman....The River = Stalker contingent seems to have that issue: River is scary to them because she's an older, sexy woman with a strongs ense of herself. And, since they're seeing the River/Doctor affair happening on different timelines, they're confused: we're seeing River's point of view, starting with the end; we're seeing the Doctor's at the beginning. So, River's in love with the Doctor in "Library"/"Forest"; the Doctor is not in love with River--that doesn't mean it's not going to happen, or that River is some sort of psycho.....
I also find it interesting to run across comments about how asexual this Doctor is....Funny--because one of the first things that struck me about Eleven was how much more sexual he was than any previous Doctor, including Nine, whom I'd rank as the runner up. Ten came across as a complete prude....I can't imagine at all the River/Doctor story developing with Ten; instead, he was perfect for being the beginning, with his usual shocked, vaguely repulsed, reaction to anything relating to sex. Eleven's increasing interest in River is just plain fun to watch....I can't decide which I like better--the sly sexiness of "Hi, honey--I'm home" or the smile-to-himself when Eleven hears "Did you dance?" behind him.....
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I can't quite wrap my head around why Eleven is perceived by some as asexual, not after I saw him in his tux. Add to that Amy's reaction when he was changing, as well as Rory's, and you have a character who's doing quite well in the sexuality department, thank you very much. Oh, and did I mention River blowing in from the ship and falling on top of him in his second meeting with her? Yeah, don't let the bowties and tweeds fool you - under that professorial getup is someone who is slowly being stirred by River, and who reacted to Amy's kiss for an instant, before discipline took over. And the more he's with River, the more this part of his personality comes out - like the very natural arm in arm scene on the museum roof after 'Hi, honey, I'm home" is drawled out.
He said it himself in response to Amy's "Been a while, huh?" "Ye ... No!" Yeah, this Doctor dances. ;)
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I can't quite wrap my head around why Eleven is perceived by some as asexual, not after I saw him in his tux. Add to that Amy's reaction when he was changing, as well as Rory's, and you have a character who's doing quite well in the sexuality department, thank you very much. Oh, and did I mention River blowing in from the ship and falling on top of him in his second meeting with her? Yeah, no one should the bowties and tweeds fool him - under that professorial getup is someone who is slowly being stirred by River, and who reacted to Amy's kiss for an instant, before discipline took over. And the more he's with River, the more this part of his personality comes out - like the very natural arm in arm scene on the museum roof after 'Hi, honey, I'm home" is drawled out.
He said it himself in response to Amy's "Been a while, huh?" "Ye ... No!" Yeah, this Doctor dances. ;)
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There's also the body language the Doctor uses with both fish!Mom in "Vampires" and River in "Flesh and Stone"--he approaches both slowly, circling the women, and his voice drops. In "Vampires," he also notes the beautiful woman who passes by the TARDIS, as well as the "buxom" fish!girls. I'd say his interests are made pretty clear.
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Do you know what rumor I hope is true? - that Capt Jack makes an appearance in DW, because I want to see the Doctor as well as his companions respond to Jack's full blown, joyous sexuality. I have a feeling this time around, we won't have the prudishness of Ten, not after the scene with Jeffrey when Eleven is sizing him up, and afterwards looks at his computer and tells him to get a girlfriend. He didn't get a lecture about his smut, just a little fatherly advice.
Oh, I love this Doctor so much!
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The only way I'd want to see Jack onboard is if we could have Moffat's Jack again....Could we please skip the jackass whom Rusty invented for CoE? For one thing--I think Eleven would pitch Jack's sorry ass out the door as soon as he got wind of Jack's inexplicable donation of kids to drug-addled plucked chickens in 1965.....
That aside--if we could have the actual Jack Harkness back again...It could be a riot, watching Smith and Barrowman play off each other--some of the best interaction between Barrowman/Eccleston and Barrowman/Tennant was Jack's *facepalm* moments over the Doctor: "Who looks at a screwdriver and says, 'OOOooo, this could be a little more SONIC'?"; "Well, I've got a banana, and in a pinch, you could put up some shelving"; "A conglomerate! That's what I said!" "You're supposed to say, 'sorry.'"
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I would be beside myself to see the interplay between the Doctor and Jack, if Jack has a chance to react to the Doctor's alienness, and that's presupposingv we're getting Jack as Moffat wrote him, and not the wreck of CoE. Oh my, zI can't even imagine if he turns on the charm with River, what the reaction would be. Just plz make it so, Mr Moffenator.
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Although that does remind me of some complaints that I've seen--the show isn't gay enough....Of course, last year and earlier, it was supposedly too gay, but I presume that argument was made by the opposing side. :D Ah, well....
Maybe....Could we just have Moffat write TW? Yeah. Pipe dreams of what could have been. Might have been. Never was......
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Moffat's just getting started...
*sigh* Now that would have been the best - Moffat writing Jack and Ianto. I'm fairly certain Ianto would still be with us, or at least not have died in a spectacularly stupid way. On the other hand, I am very, very grateful to Moffat for Eleven and this series, and the next, including River's upcoming story. Sight unseen, I have confidence it will be something worth getting excited over.
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Sometimes...the sarcasmlock gets stuck.
The thought of Moffat's writing Ianto/Jack banter makes me wish time could be rewritten.
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