The homesexuals are coming for our childrens

[xchristinax]

Over in weddingplans, crazybouncycrls is having some issues with her racist grandmother. This isn't the stupid.

crazybouncycrls thinks it's especially odd because she's from California, which is more refined. , but someone else points out that racism exists everywhere... even in Maine. Here comes the kicker:

"Um, I live in Maine, and I don't think they're racist, I think they just

Comments

[evildamsel]

I did look at the research. There has been article after article reporting on how the state scores and the NCLB scores don't actually jibe. That's not even the point. NCLB was intended for special education students. It was originally supposed to encompass the arts, science and other fields aside from basic reading and math and had other ways to measure success aside from standardized exams. Unfortunately when it was expanded, everything except the reading and math was dropped as the government was basically too lazy to come up with a way to keep those other measurements. The other issue is that the program isn't funded, thus leaving school districts scrambling to cut their own budgets, which often ends up cutting art and music, which research has shown do impact educational potential and growth, as well as science and social studies. Furthermore, in order to pass, every class and group in the school must pass those tests, which means if the special ed fifth grade class has three kids and one fails, the group fails and thus the school fails. Not to mention that these tests do not measure levels in a scientifically accepted manner - for it to be a valid measure you have to observe how a specific group of students does in each succeeding class but instead they measure how Ms. Thompson teaches 4th grade every year, thus a completely different group of students with completely different needs. I could go on but frankly I don't think I need to.

[anomie666]

Show some of the research showing testing scores haven't improved???

NCLB was intended for special education students

No. Where did you get that? Special Education is covered by the IDEA legislation. There are entire other legal provisions specifically for special education.

It was originally supposed to encompass the arts, science and other fields aside from basic reading and math and had other ways to measure success aside from standardized exams

Where the fuck do you get this info?

Seriously. WTF? This is my job, I know the NCLB legislation inside and out. There was nothing in the history of the legislation that it wasn't supposed to have rigid criterion referenced outcome measurements. That is the heart of accountability.

The other issue is that the program isn't funded

This criticism is what I laugh at the most. On the one hand, NCLB critics talk about how horrid the law is, and then they say it was underfunded. Which is it? Is it a good law and the problem is underfunding or is it a bad law so that you would be happy it is underfunded?? Its like the teachers unions and everyone that has a political and economic stake in this fight are looking for sound bites even when they are contradictory. Also, gets your facts right. The President does not fund legislation. If you think NCLB is underfunded, complain to your democratic controlled congress.

Furthermore, in order to pass, every class and group in the school must pass those tests, which means if the special ed fifth grade class has three kids and one fails, the group fails and thus the school fails

Holy shit. Where do you get this misinformation???? AYP is a district and school process not a "classroom" process. School districts are not required to report scores by classroom. Your information here is beyond wrong.

Not to mention that these tests do not measure levels in a scientifically accepted manner - for it to be a valid measure you have to observe how a specific group of students does in each succeeding class but instead they measure how Ms. Thompson teaches 4th grade every year, thus a completely different group of students with completely different needs. I could go on but frankly I don't think I need to.

First off, nothing is measured by class. That information is not required to be reported. You are simply completely wrong. The premise of NCLB is not a panel study AYP means making consistent progress (getting students to the "proficient" or "advanced proficient" levels. The research here is cross-sectional, which is scientifically valid way of showing which schools and districts are producing results.

I would dare you (double dog dare you) to show me anything that supports you completely wrong understanding of this legislation.

[evildamsel]

First of all I got all my information from the NY Times over the past several years as well as from local teachers and aides.

Second, the program is crap to begin with and even worse because it's no funded which forces the school districts to move finances from their other programs. So no there is no reason to be happy that they have to use arts money or sports money or money for that field trip to the Statue of Liberty.

Third, the progress is measured by grade not class and there is no allowance for improvement unless it goes from not proficient to proficient. Getting kids who get 0s to almost passing counts for nothing.

[anomie666]

First of all I got all my information from the NY Times over the past several years as well as from local teachers and aides

Give a link that has such utter lies and misinformation in it then. Your facts are purely wrong; unbelievably wrong, magnificently wrong. Your local teachers and aides also need to read the NCLB legislation and learn a thing or two about it.

Second, the program is crap to begin with and even worse because it's no funded which forces the school districts to move finances from their other programs

Again, which is it? Is the program crap and therefore you are happy it is "underfunded" or is it great program so therefore you are sad it is "underfunded"? You can't have it both ways. Pick a direction and go with it.

Third, the progress is measured by grade not class and there is no allowance for improvement unless it goes from not proficient to proficient. Getting kids who get 0s to almost passing counts for nothing.

Again, your facts are simple wrong. How wrong, let me count the ways. 1) Of course progress is measured by grade, the curriculum frameworks are by grade. Each year is separate curriculum frameworks and a completely different test. To measure "progress" from a student taking a 3rd grade test to student taking a 4th grade test on a completely different test with a different curriculum is absolutely meaningless. What we need to see is are schools and districts moving students in positive directions from 1 year to the next. 2) AYP is a "value added" statistical model of improvement. If you are moving students from failure to "needs improvement" that is just as much progress as moving students from "needs improvement" to proficient. The ultimate goal is to have 100% of students meeting or exceeding standards (meaning reaching proficient or advanced proficient), but districts are not penalized for having a high hurdle at baseline. Basically, we are looking for improvement, not perfection. Schools need to keep showing they are making improvements. 3) There is no "not proficient" category.

[evildamsel]

It's crap and I would be happy if it wasn't funded if the government wasn't requiring the states follow it. You really just don't get that do you? If it was just a suggestion and there were no funds, fine, it could be ignored because it's stupid and they aren't giving the schools any money to even make them want to do this. But they're forcing the schools to do it and making them do it on their own funds which should be going to other more useful things.

Furthermore these tests are absolutely meaningless. They do not teach anything aside from how to take a standardized test which is a skill that is useless once you get past the SATs. Kids need to learn a wider array of information and skills which they are not getting as long as the priority is set on getting them to pass a standardized exam. Second of all, no seeing how they do on exams from year to year is not meaningless. If they barely pass one year and then pass the next and then do pretty well the one after that, it shows that they are at least learning something, if only how to take these tests. If they can't pass year after year, then they're learning nothing at all.