The case against 'katelinmr'
On November 3rd star_sailor13 reported a possible case of plagiarism by katelinmr . The original report can be found here. This case was unique for us as it dealt with art revolving around the Harry Potter fandom. As none of the current mods have an artistic background, we enlisted the help of a consultant for this specific report. Also, this was a difficult case as the two were friends and, in fact, star_sailor13 was a mentor to katelinmr so there are instances where their styles might be similar.
The first aspect of the case to be addressed are the snakes. This is the original artwork submitted to us:
At first glance, they are very similar. However, after looking through several pieces of Harry Potter fan works, this is a very common theme and/or trope. There were several pictures that were also similar - including snakes, dragons, and even skeletons appearing from a wand's magic. Several pictures were in the same shade of green (as was official artwork) Again, while this easily could have been inspired by it, alone, it could easily be chalked up to a hive-mind aspect. I have saved several to my computer, but as these pictures still belong to the artist, I feel uncomfortable linking them without permission.
Examples of merchandise with Slytherin logo:
As far as Pansy herself, I am going with the information from our consultant:
Now, with big eye art, faces are so stylized that I can see how two drawings could resemble each other closely, without plagiarism being intended. But given that there are tracings in the rest of the work -- except for that one really rough sketch that I really don't understand at all -- I'm inclined to feel this was unacknowledged borrowing. The last sample, with the Harry/Draco stuff side by side, is pretty damning.
As stated previously, katelinmr gave credit to a friend 'Christopher' on her art work for glompfest. So after I contacted katelinmr, this was her response:
Hi there!
Firstly, Christopher isn't a friend of mine. I don't even know him. :)
His full name is Christopher Heart (if I spelled that correctly, I'm not sure) and he makes a lot of art books. He's pretty big here but originally from the states, I think. You couldn't know that if you're not an artist, or someone who enjoys drawing, but I do state that in my artist's notes in the entry I made. I can't give you a reference, as it is in a book. You can google him though, if you'd like. :)
The reference I did use was of a woman's hand, in a couple of his books. In those books he has a number of pages dedicated to drawing hands, as it is (in my opinion anyway) really hard to do. It's not that hard to make a man's hand out of a female example though, and that's what I did with a couple of his references.
I'm glad that you are so open. I hadn't seen the entry, seeing as I'm neither a member of a watcher of the community, so thank you.
I read the entry, and I can't blame her for it. I don't state that I did steal her art. But I can't blame her for thinking I did, looking at it. However, I did not do such a thing. The last two panels are mine, and I drew that with a lot of work. I'm not nearly as great an artist as she is, so why even try to copy something she did for a community? It doesn't make sense. I'll come back to this later n____n
You read the story about Pansy, and what happened with Cindel, at that time, my best friend. I contacted her immediately after I got Star's email with the comparisons of the two drawings, but at that time she was on a holiday with her now to be husband, at that time, still her boyfriend. She apologized to me and told me to apologize to Star too, for her, and promised me that she would contact her about it when she came back. I was also promised the drawing she made of the drawing of Star, as you've read or been told by now - which I didn't know. When she got back we searched for the drawing but couldn't find it. I really needed it so that I could show it to Star, so that she would se that I didn't do it on purpose. According to Cindel I got obsessed, and we got in a fight over it. She hadn't contacted Star at that time and i confronted her with it, and she got even more angry. The friendship ended after that, because she wouldn't let me search for the drawing anymore and wouldn't do it herself, and I just couldn't understand why she wouldn't want to help me. I considered Star a really close friend of mine and was really upset that Cinel wouldn't help me to sort this out. We are slowly starting to get back on speaking terms now, so I could try to carefully bring it up again, ask her if she ever found that drawing or not, so that I could email it to you.
At first I felt really guilty, I told her that I would draw a new Pansy for the meet up, but later decided against it. This because I talked to a friend of mine. Yes I was upset because I couldn't believe what had happened, so I called her and we talked it over. She's someone who posts on deviantart regularly, so I won't mention her name (Cindel doesn't post anywhere, mainly because (so I've found out back then) she uses a lot of references from the internet, and she said that that was the reason for keeping them to herself). Anyhow, Let's call her W for now. W asked me if the drawing, the end result was what I had in mind when I started drawing, and I told her yes, because it was. I just couldn't make the pose work, and Cindel helped me out and took the drawing with her at the time. So W advised me to credit her somehow, I think Star already suggested it by the time, but I'm not entirely sure of that bit of the timeline anymore, so I can't say for certain. And that's how it went. I still feel off about the drawing. And I've never let anyone else help me with a pose again. And yes I was angry when I sent that email, but mostly at myself. Star told me that she had expected that I would say I was going to post it no matter what before and I realized that that was what I should have said, hence the tone of the email.
The snake in the drawing however, is completely mine. As far as it can BE mine, seeing as I'm using something that J.K. Rowling came up with. The first thing I knew when I was going to draw Pansy was that I wanted a Snake like S illuminating her somehow. I felt it was fitting. I can't say anything else about it. I used some snake photos for the head, because I had no idea what a snake head was supposed to look like exactly, and just took the greenest green photoshop could give me *shrugs*
As for the entry I made for glompfest. Like I stated before, the last two panels came out of my head. I've been sketching for a really long time, drawing all kinds of different poses and possibilities. But these two worked best for me. I've drawn Harry with his hand in Draco's hair, under his chin, in his neck. And I've made them kiss, just hug, or looked at each other with open eyes, half closed eyes or closed eyes, I made them smile or look sad. I've tried out all kinds of different stuff and this was what worked best for me. A good online friend even helped me decide if I should draw Harry's nose in front of Draco's or the other way around. I think what makes it so alike in the panel where he's sliding his hand over Draco's cheek is the fact that you can't see eyes. (that was the case with her art as well right?). Anyway, I tried to leave the eyes out where I could, because I felt that gave the drawing some more emotion. So I did it in that panel as well.
I did however use the outlining of the face on the - I think it was the (?) - 3rd panel. I have a folder on my computer in which I have drawings with things I think are hard to draw, mostly stick figures for poses (as tutorials) or autonomy pictures to see where you can see which bone or muscle. Or tutorials for hands, eyes etc. It has helped me since I started drawing. It's sort of my own reference art book of all sorts of tutorials and stuff. And the outlining of the face in the (again I think it was) the third panel was in there too. I didn't know it could hurt anyone, as it was just an outlining of a face. (I mean the panel in which Draco is crying, if it's not the third panel. I'm not at home because my internet is not working at the moment so I don't have access to the community to check). I'm sorry that it hurt her that I used the outlining. It was not my intention at all. I was really frustrated because his face just wouldn't cooperate and I dived into my folder to see if any tutorial of some kind could help me figure out what was wrong with it or what I did wrong while drawing it.
Again, I am deeply sorry that using that outlining of his cheek and neck hurt her. And again, it wasn't my intention.
If you could give me some kind of email address I could send you some of the more important sketches I did, so that you can see what went on in my head when I was drawing it (the last to panels). I'm pretty sure I can't attach stuff in here, so it would be helpful n___n if you think it's not necessary, than that's fine with me too.
I am not a thief.
I enjoy drawing, it's the greatest stress reliever next to reading, and I draw every day. I draw Disney stuff, Pokemon stuff, Harry Potter stuff, Avatar: The Last Airbender stuff, but mostly I draw elves. I enjoy playing around with shadows, light, poses, hair, eyes, styles, anything. It's great. But if you just simply copy stuff instead of figuring our yourself what it is that you want to draw then you can't be enjoying it. At all. I think you would do it for the comments then, and I don't. It's for me. I think I post only 10 percent of what I draw, because I promised it to people, or they were dedicated to someone, it always has a reason when I post. When I just draw because I feel like it, I keep them to myself most of the times. Mainly because I feel that they won't add to anything on either livejournal or deviantart.
I draw for me, I've always done it and I probably always will. So straight out copying stuff from someone else doesn't make sense to me at all.
I hope I've been able to answer most of your questions, if you have any left you can reach me at KatelinMR at gmail dot com. It's probably faster that this way :) and I can access it from anywhere n____n
Feel free to ask me any more questions. I check my email at least once a day from my mobile so if there's anything I'm bound to see it.
Again thank you for giving me a chance, it is really kind of you :D
Love,
Katelin
After this, she sent me several pictures from Chistopher Hart's artbook along with the hand she claimed to use for the Draco pictures. The pictures and the original comparison are below:
As katelinmr does admit to tracing aspects of the third panel, I wanted to find out the correct way to credit another artist. I checked again with the consultant and this is what she informed about art credit.
The proper practice is to say "after", as in, "here's a sketch I did of John and Jack, after Christopher Hart." If she borrows from a friend's work, she absolutely should get permission first; failing to do that she should clearly label the work as "after (my friend)," or "inspired by (title), by (my friend)."
She may not have known this, being young. My personal opinion is that if she apologizes instead of playing denial games, and agrees to be more upfront about her inspirations in future, she should get a break. Just my opinio.
So, as katelinmr admitted to the tracing, I asked both parties if the credit was changed properly (this is to include specific friends, star_sailor13 , and use of Christopher Hart's reference books) would it be acceptable to go with a warning. Again, because of the past relationship and influence, this was a difficult case. We are not in anyway saying that tracing is not a serious issue, it most certainly is - especially without credit. However, as both parties seemed sincere about the resolution we wanted to do what was best for everyone (and the communities involved) and educatekatelinmr about proper credit.
The credit on the glomfest was then changed from 'my friend Christopher' to:
A/N: You said you wanted a different ending to the bathroom scene of Harry Potter and the Half-Blood prince, and this is what popped up in my head immediately :D It doesn't have the rating you asked for, but I really really hope you'll like it nevertheless n___n ♥.
- Thanks for brissygirl and utteramusement for the help
- and thank you so much Christopher heart that you made artbooks which gave me a hand reference *hangs head* Meaning the hand on Draco's face is not mine, It's from one of Christopher Hart's books :D
- And thank you star_sailor13 for the inspiration :)
Disclaimer: Sadly, they are not mine.... .. ... yet.
For now, katelinmr will be added to our 'watch list' as she was guilty of tracing. However, if any future cases of improper credit are discovered, the findings may be reversed at that time. Again, we want to thank jwaneeta for the help and both parties for reaching an amicable agreement.
The first aspect of the case to be addressed are the snakes. This is the original artwork submitted to us:
At first glance, they are very similar. However, after looking through several pieces of Harry Potter fan works, this is a very common theme and/or trope. There were several pictures that were also similar - including snakes, dragons, and even skeletons appearing from a wand's magic. Several pictures were in the same shade of green (as was official artwork) Again, while this easily could have been inspired by it, alone, it could easily be chalked up to a hive-mind aspect. I have saved several to my computer, but as these pictures still belong to the artist, I feel uncomfortable linking them without permission.
Examples of merchandise with Slytherin logo:
As far as Pansy herself, I am going with the information from our consultant:
Now, with big eye art, faces are so stylized that I can see how two drawings could resemble each other closely, without plagiarism being intended. But given that there are tracings in the rest of the work -- except for that one really rough sketch that I really don't understand at all -- I'm inclined to feel this was unacknowledged borrowing. The last sample, with the Harry/Draco stuff side by side, is pretty damning.
As stated previously, katelinmr gave credit to a friend 'Christopher' on her art work for glompfest. So after I contacted katelinmr, this was her response:
Hi there!
Firstly, Christopher isn't a friend of mine. I don't even know him. :)
His full name is Christopher Heart (if I spelled that correctly, I'm not sure) and he makes a lot of art books. He's pretty big here but originally from the states, I think. You couldn't know that if you're not an artist, or someone who enjoys drawing, but I do state that in my artist's notes in the entry I made. I can't give you a reference, as it is in a book. You can google him though, if you'd like. :)
The reference I did use was of a woman's hand, in a couple of his books. In those books he has a number of pages dedicated to drawing hands, as it is (in my opinion anyway) really hard to do. It's not that hard to make a man's hand out of a female example though, and that's what I did with a couple of his references.
I'm glad that you are so open. I hadn't seen the entry, seeing as I'm neither a member of a watcher of the community, so thank you.
I read the entry, and I can't blame her for it. I don't state that I did steal her art. But I can't blame her for thinking I did, looking at it. However, I did not do such a thing. The last two panels are mine, and I drew that with a lot of work. I'm not nearly as great an artist as she is, so why even try to copy something she did for a community? It doesn't make sense. I'll come back to this later n____n
You read the story about Pansy, and what happened with Cindel, at that time, my best friend. I contacted her immediately after I got Star's email with the comparisons of the two drawings, but at that time she was on a holiday with her now to be husband, at that time, still her boyfriend. She apologized to me and told me to apologize to Star too, for her, and promised me that she would contact her about it when she came back. I was also promised the drawing she made of the drawing of Star, as you've read or been told by now - which I didn't know. When she got back we searched for the drawing but couldn't find it. I really needed it so that I could show it to Star, so that she would se that I didn't do it on purpose. According to Cindel I got obsessed, and we got in a fight over it. She hadn't contacted Star at that time and i confronted her with it, and she got even more angry. The friendship ended after that, because she wouldn't let me search for the drawing anymore and wouldn't do it herself, and I just couldn't understand why she wouldn't want to help me. I considered Star a really close friend of mine and was really upset that Cinel wouldn't help me to sort this out. We are slowly starting to get back on speaking terms now, so I could try to carefully bring it up again, ask her if she ever found that drawing or not, so that I could email it to you.
At first I felt really guilty, I told her that I would draw a new Pansy for the meet up, but later decided against it. This because I talked to a friend of mine. Yes I was upset because I couldn't believe what had happened, so I called her and we talked it over. She's someone who posts on deviantart regularly, so I won't mention her name (Cindel doesn't post anywhere, mainly because (so I've found out back then) she uses a lot of references from the internet, and she said that that was the reason for keeping them to herself). Anyhow, Let's call her W for now. W asked me if the drawing, the end result was what I had in mind when I started drawing, and I told her yes, because it was. I just couldn't make the pose work, and Cindel helped me out and took the drawing with her at the time. So W advised me to credit her somehow, I think Star already suggested it by the time, but I'm not entirely sure of that bit of the timeline anymore, so I can't say for certain. And that's how it went. I still feel off about the drawing. And I've never let anyone else help me with a pose again. And yes I was angry when I sent that email, but mostly at myself. Star told me that she had expected that I would say I was going to post it no matter what before and I realized that that was what I should have said, hence the tone of the email.
The snake in the drawing however, is completely mine. As far as it can BE mine, seeing as I'm using something that J.K. Rowling came up with. The first thing I knew when I was going to draw Pansy was that I wanted a Snake like S illuminating her somehow. I felt it was fitting. I can't say anything else about it. I used some snake photos for the head, because I had no idea what a snake head was supposed to look like exactly, and just took the greenest green photoshop could give me *shrugs*
As for the entry I made for glompfest. Like I stated before, the last two panels came out of my head. I've been sketching for a really long time, drawing all kinds of different poses and possibilities. But these two worked best for me. I've drawn Harry with his hand in Draco's hair, under his chin, in his neck. And I've made them kiss, just hug, or looked at each other with open eyes, half closed eyes or closed eyes, I made them smile or look sad. I've tried out all kinds of different stuff and this was what worked best for me. A good online friend even helped me decide if I should draw Harry's nose in front of Draco's or the other way around. I think what makes it so alike in the panel where he's sliding his hand over Draco's cheek is the fact that you can't see eyes. (that was the case with her art as well right?). Anyway, I tried to leave the eyes out where I could, because I felt that gave the drawing some more emotion. So I did it in that panel as well.
I did however use the outlining of the face on the - I think it was the (?) - 3rd panel. I have a folder on my computer in which I have drawings with things I think are hard to draw, mostly stick figures for poses (as tutorials) or autonomy pictures to see where you can see which bone or muscle. Or tutorials for hands, eyes etc. It has helped me since I started drawing. It's sort of my own reference art book of all sorts of tutorials and stuff. And the outlining of the face in the (again I think it was) the third panel was in there too. I didn't know it could hurt anyone, as it was just an outlining of a face. (I mean the panel in which Draco is crying, if it's not the third panel. I'm not at home because my internet is not working at the moment so I don't have access to the community to check). I'm sorry that it hurt her that I used the outlining. It was not my intention at all. I was really frustrated because his face just wouldn't cooperate and I dived into my folder to see if any tutorial of some kind could help me figure out what was wrong with it or what I did wrong while drawing it.
Again, I am deeply sorry that using that outlining of his cheek and neck hurt her. And again, it wasn't my intention.
If you could give me some kind of email address I could send you some of the more important sketches I did, so that you can see what went on in my head when I was drawing it (the last to panels). I'm pretty sure I can't attach stuff in here, so it would be helpful n___n if you think it's not necessary, than that's fine with me too.
I am not a thief.
I enjoy drawing, it's the greatest stress reliever next to reading, and I draw every day. I draw Disney stuff, Pokemon stuff, Harry Potter stuff, Avatar: The Last Airbender stuff, but mostly I draw elves. I enjoy playing around with shadows, light, poses, hair, eyes, styles, anything. It's great. But if you just simply copy stuff instead of figuring our yourself what it is that you want to draw then you can't be enjoying it. At all. I think you would do it for the comments then, and I don't. It's for me. I think I post only 10 percent of what I draw, because I promised it to people, or they were dedicated to someone, it always has a reason when I post. When I just draw because I feel like it, I keep them to myself most of the times. Mainly because I feel that they won't add to anything on either livejournal or deviantart.
I draw for me, I've always done it and I probably always will. So straight out copying stuff from someone else doesn't make sense to me at all.
I hope I've been able to answer most of your questions, if you have any left you can reach me at KatelinMR at gmail dot com. It's probably faster that this way :) and I can access it from anywhere n____n
Feel free to ask me any more questions. I check my email at least once a day from my mobile so if there's anything I'm bound to see it.
Again thank you for giving me a chance, it is really kind of you :D
Love,
Katelin
After this, she sent me several pictures from Chistopher Hart's artbook along with the hand she claimed to use for the Draco pictures. The pictures and the original comparison are below:
As katelinmr does admit to tracing aspects of the third panel, I wanted to find out the correct way to credit another artist. I checked again with the consultant and this is what she informed about art credit.
The proper practice is to say "after", as in, "here's a sketch I did of John and Jack, after Christopher Hart." If she borrows from a friend's work, she absolutely should get permission first; failing to do that she should clearly label the work as "after (my friend)," or "inspired by (title), by (my friend)."
She may not have known this, being young. My personal opinion is that if she apologizes instead of playing denial games, and agrees to be more upfront about her inspirations in future, she should get a break. Just my opinio.
So, as katelinmr admitted to the tracing, I asked both parties if the credit was changed properly (this is to include specific friends, star_sailor13 , and use of Christopher Hart's reference books) would it be acceptable to go with a warning. Again, because of the past relationship and influence, this was a difficult case. We are not in anyway saying that tracing is not a serious issue, it most certainly is - especially without credit. However, as both parties seemed sincere about the resolution we wanted to do what was best for everyone (and the communities involved) and educatekatelinmr about proper credit.
The credit on the glomfest was then changed from 'my friend Christopher' to:
A/N: You said you wanted a different ending to the bathroom scene of Harry Potter and the Half-Blood prince, and this is what popped up in my head immediately :D It doesn't have the rating you asked for, but I really really hope you'll like it nevertheless n___n ♥.
- Thanks for brissygirl and utteramusement for the help
- and thank you so much Christopher heart that you made artbooks which gave me a hand reference *hangs head* Meaning the hand on Draco's face is not mine, It's from one of Christopher Hart's books :D
- And thank you star_sailor13 for the inspiration :)
Disclaimer: Sadly, they are not mine.... .. ... yet.
For now, katelinmr will be added to our 'watch list' as she was guilty of tracing. However, if any future cases of improper credit are discovered, the findings may be reversed at that time. Again, we want to thank jwaneeta for the help and both parties for reaching an amicable agreement.