Annoyed and Stressed

[stillthere4me]

Okay, I understand I probably should've asked her sooner, but I'm beginning to get really annoyed since I already sent her TWO emails asking for permission to use non-.edu sites on my HSM paper. I really want to use them, because one has the director specfically stating that they specifically chose "not to define" Ryan Evans's character, and how no

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[elvensorceress]

Well, if you're interested in my thoughts about all the gay in HSM...

1. Something I love about Ryan is yes, they make him pretty stereotypical (the clothes, the mannerisms, theater, dancing, yoga, the fact that he's a Mama's boy) though I'd argue that they do that do make the audience get it but they also break that stereotype by making him absolutely awesome at baseball. It completely fleshed out his character and made him so much more real, and he's really the only three dimensional character in the whole trilogy.

2. Even though HSM1 is supposedly a straight lovestory, it's not written that way. It's written with the lovebirds hiding and being shy about it and thinking of themselves in a completely new and different way because of each other. Plus, their friends/family don't get it at all and try to keep them apart. But what is really significant is that HSM1 is all about Troy and Gabi connecting and changing because of each other, and HSM2 has that same story but with Chad and Ryan. Chad was absolutely militant about hating theater and dancing (and etc...) but Ryan changed his mind and then in HSM3 we see Chad participating in the show and enjoying it. Ryan was very reserved (and barely had any part in HSM1) and let himself be walked on and almost certainly would have faded into the background after losing the baseball game had Chad not reached out to him. But because that happened, you get the awesomely happy and comfortable and self-assured Ryan that's in HSM3. Their story is the through line for the whole second movie because that's the one where the characters grow and change. You can argue that Troy and Sharpay sort of have a change of heart, but they don't really. They more stop being themselves for a bit because it didn't get them what they wanted.

3. Can you tell I'm passionate about that? A little bit? oh gosh. *facepalm*

4. Chad is so gay. So, so very gay. Most people focus on how Ryan is the obvious one because of the clothes and the pink. (Honestly, Chad is the one who dresses more like a young gay boy. At least in the first two movies. The third one has Ryan in hooker boots and flower pants so...) Anyway. Chad is completely dependent and driven by his relationships with other men. Mostly Troy, but he very obviously needs that male companionship. Girls are pretty much an afterthought, and his whole relationship with Taylor comes across as he's just doing it because that's what he's supposed to do. He doesn't ask her out until he sees how Troy wants Gabi, they haven't been on a "proper date" for at least the first four months of their relationship and he doesn't seem to have any emotional attachment to her whatsoever (for example, see how he completely dismisses their year+ long relationship when he talks about how she's going to Yale and it'll be him and Troy again!)

5. I could probably ramble about more things, but I don't think you need to hear them. O:-)

Unfortunately, you probably can't use me as a source. XD But oh well. <3

xoxoxo

[stillthere4me]

That's exactly my thought with Ryan! A lot of the sources I have found that talk about gay in High School Musical tend to bash Ryan for being so stereotypical, but I agree it's so the audience DOES get it. They make it just about as clear as they can without him making out with another boy and saying he is. And my arguement in my essay is going to be that the reason they DON'T let him say he is, is because Disney wanted to make sure that the poor gay children (and to educate the straight children as well) in ultra-conservative families could still have that role model and know being gay IS normal and okay, but also their homophobic parents would let them watch the movies. If Ryan was any more open, the homophobe parents would have boycotted the films.

Again, I totally agree!! And the scene where Troy is confronted by his dad after talking to Gabriella in the gym??? XD My god, you would THINK Gabriella WAS a boy! "She's not a problem dad! She's just a girl!" XD Man... Not to mention just all of Troy's conflicts about trying out for theatre in general...they could all be metaphors for dealing with homosexuality. Chad's whole speech about how if Troy plays basketball, he could end up on cereal boxes, but if he is in theatre, he ends up in his mom's fridge. That could easily be a pretty clear metaphor for just being gay and out in society, and perception of how sucessful one can be.

XD I do not mind the passion!

Oh yes! I'm still trying to figure out how to work the essay around that. Especially in the first movie, he is so more obvious than Ryan (granted, Ryan had maybe only two lines NOT directed at his sister?), especially taking into consideration how posessive he is of Troy. The only movie Chad isn't obviously gay in is the third, and even that one his whole speech about "you don't take the girl with you out of high school"... I saw that at my college with my friend who wasn't sure about my theory on Chad having a crush on Troy (or even that Chad was gay), and at that line she just turned to me and laughed and said "okay, I get it. You're right."

My essay in my head though (i've only got the intro down, and I'm going to have to shorten it still) is going to organize it movie-by-movie, although this is still a pretty messy setup, but given my teacher probably doesn't know the movies, I don't know how else to explain them to her without it getting even more disorganized. The first movie I'm definitely focusing on Troy's basic "coming out" story with liking theatre, his confrontations with his dad and team, and then Chad's ridiculous possessiveness and jealousy of his best friend's girlfriend too. The second movie Ryan's significantly more flamboyant outfits, his closeness with his mom, the "I Don't Dance" scene basically being "I know you're gay/No I'm not!" And then the third movie Ryan's even more flamboyant outfits, his so-not-a-date prom date with Kelsi (i've tried in my head fitting her in as another gay character, but she's not as obvious and until the third movie, did have a supposed "love interest" in Jason, and my evidence for her seems limited to writing the first person love songs for Gabriella, and always seeming to sympathize with Troy when he's on the outs with Gabriella), his Scissor Sister shirt, and his checking out of Zeke during "I Want It All". Yeah, the third movie seems to be mostly about Ryan. Except of course for the theme present in all three movies of being okay with who you are, and doing what you want to do despite what everyone else may think.

That's at least what I have planned so far...

[elvensorceress]

Yeah, sadly, with the way our world is now, they can't have a gay character in a kids movie (at least, not one that's so high-profile) who has a visible on-screen relationship. People would throw a fit so hard, they'd hurt themselves. Which is tragic, but I think that makes Ryan all the more important. I hate getting into shipper wars, but I loathe any Ryan/girl pairing because it is so very important for him to be that unashamed, comfortable gay character. All my life, that was all I ever wanted was to see that and have something that didn't make me feel like I was completely alone and freakish. And to have that in a kids movie is especially awesome because they can have that image while growing up. I was 16 before I had that, which is far, far too old. I had gay inclinations when I was seven. That was a long time to wait.

"She's not a problem dad! She's just a girl!" XD
LOL. Yeah. My cousin always says that HSM is really set in Zanna Don't universe (where homosexuality is the norm and a boy and girl fall in love and it's OMG HOW COULD THEY) because that is soooooo the way Troyella happened. "Breaking Free" is one big "I'm coming out!" song. XD

Chad's whole speech about how if Troy plays basketball, he could end up on cereal boxes, but if he is in theatre, he ends up in his mom's fridge. That could easily be a pretty clear metaphor for just being gay and out in society, and perception of how sucessful one can be.
Oh, totally! I love that interpretation!

Well, in the third movie (since they've been together over a year) Chad seems to have gotten the hang of his relationship with Taylor. They seem comfortable with each other and like friends but with the other two movies as a background, you can see that it took a loooong time to get to that point. And even then - no emotional/romantic attachment. Yes, it's Disney and therefore devoid of ~sexual feelings~ but even Troy and Gabi have a desire to kiss and be together. You'd think that if you were with someone for ~16 months that you'd have more connection to them. Of course the third movie really destroyed Chad's character so... ih?

I think the biggest subtext for Kelsi is in the third movie. But while there was supposedly Kelsi/Jason prior to that, it was pretty much based on two scenes they had together and that they were paired together while dancing. so that isn't much. And when they blatantly went for the Jason/Martha in HSM3 (see deleted scenes) they pretty much killed any sort of Kelsi/Jason. Even then, their scene in HSM1 was pretty one-sided.

One of the biggest things before that is Kelsi's relationship with Troy. I know it can definitely be played like she has a crush on him because he's nice to her, but Olesya and Zac don't do it that way, and Gabriella never comes across as the least bit worried or jealous about Troy and Kelsi being close friends. Troy and Kelsi actually seem a lot like Ryan and Gabi. XD Anyway. She's a character who's so quiet and meek, she probably didn't realize her own sexuality until later and/or she didn't have the supportive environment the way Ryan does. Because Ryan's family clearly adores and cherishes him.

But the fact that Sharpay thinks Kelsi would want to go to prom with Ryan signifies that she knows Kelsi doesn't have a date and wouldn't be interested in going with a guy she could have a romantic thing with because Sharpay obviously doesn't think that they'd have a romantic thing. Oh, and it always amused me that Shar tells him to buy her "ruby slippers" because omg can you get gayer than that? XD

Sounds like a good essay! If you need someone to look over it, let me know :)

[stillthere4me]

That's completely my thoughts on Ryan! And sadly why he has to be technically a "closet character" despite how wonderfully flamboyant he is. I luckily was into Sailor Moon when I was younger, and my two favorite characters in the English version were cousins, but when I looked them up online found out that in Japanese, they were apparently lovers. My mind went "Oh, well they're cool, so it must be cool to be gay". XD

So I did have that. But it did annoy me that despite all of those themes of "be yourself" in children's television, no one could apparently be themselves if they were gay. And yeah, that is why Ryan is so important. Especially for the younger kids, who now growing up won't think a boy who dances and wears tight pink pants is so weird. He's just like Ryan.

Oh yes! You could replace the words "breaking free" with "coming out" in that song, and it still makes total sense. I mean, come on: "You know the world can see us, in a way that's different than who we are..." seriously! What is the FIRST thing any resonable mind is going to think with a line like that? (assuming it WASNT in a kids movie??)

XD I'll bet I can find a speech in HSM2 that Chad gives to Troy also that is completely gay...I mean, there's one in the first and third movie, there's got to be one there too. (it's a pattern! Like Troy's dad giving him advice that goes against the theme of every movie! Which DOES occur in all three movies!)

True. And there's the point that Chad seems to NEVER hang out with Taylor unless Troy and Gabriella are acting all couple-y (although you could argue they're not the main characters, but still...). Like when they bring the cookies to the yearbook room, Troy smiles and wraps his arms around Gabriella, while Chad and Taylor just stand awkwardly near each other while Chad tightly grips his basketball (I gotta think of some symbol for that basketball...he carries it EVEYRWHERE...maybe because a basketball is used for sports, it's somehow a symbol of him being a jock and him trying to be straight? Like carrying it around with him all the time somehow is saying to everyone "Look! I pay sports! That means I must be straight!". Because it certainly isn't a phallic symbol...)

I totally agree with Kelsi. Especially on the Kelsi-Troy relationship equaling the Gabriella-Ryan relationship (the one exception being that Gabriella has the sense to realize that she's got nothing to be jealous of, because Troy has no gaydar...).

Ryan's family! Of course, I was thinking in the back of my mind about their support for him, but that also reminds me to definitely include Ryan's dad constant "straightening" of Ryan's hat! XD I love that...

XDXD Yes. Sharpay is certainly smarter and more observant than she appears. (I still think there was some Kelsi-Sharpay relationship pre-the first movie, and perhaps that's why Kelsi's play finally ended up getting chosen? But then that's just me...) And yes, the Wizard of Oz reference...that's pretty much as gay as it gets...XDXD

:) I'd love that! Although I don't know when I'll be finished with it, so you might not be awake by the time I am! XD

[elvensorceress]

I always think saying he's in the closet is soooo silly. Just because they don't say it doesn't mean he's not the gayest gay to have ever gayed. Which probably says a lot for East High. LOL.

I gotta think of some symbol for that basketball...he carries it EVEYRWHERE...maybe because a basketball is used for sports, it's somehow a symbol of him being a jock and him trying to be straight?
Oh, I like that concept! That's so interesting. HEEE! It might not be "phallic" but it still, ya kno, a ball.... :-X

Gabriella has the sense to realize that she's got nothing to be jealous of, because Troy has no gaydar...
Oh, totally. I love your "Troy's gaydar failed" icon. XD

Kelsi-Sharpay relationship pre-the first movie, and perhaps that's why Kelsi's play finally ended up getting chosen?
OOOOH. Ok, someone totally needs to write that now. I definitely think Kelsi puts up with Sharpay (particularly in the first movie) because she's crushing on her.

I'm often up at weird hours, so you can always give it a shot. I'll try to get back to you as quick as I can. :)

♥

[stillthere4me]

XDXDXD Very very true. But since the crazy conservative parents didn't seem to catch on (and Troy in the second movie), he's still partially in the closet?

XDXDXDXD Oh my god, that's true. It is a ball....

XDXD Me too! I don't think I will ever get rid of it. And it's so true too...oh Troy...

XD! I think you're the first person (or at least one of the first) I've spoken to about that theory who agreed with me!! Kelsi was SO crushing on Sharpay (at least crushing) until Gabriella came to East High.

:) great! I'll definitely try then when I get it done.

[elvensorceress]

Oh, Troy. Ryan could have "I'm so fabulously gay I'm made of rainbow sparkles" tattooed on his head and Troy would still be going "stop hitting on my girlfriend *epic pout*"

HEEEE.

Well, to be fair I have massive love for Ashley Tisdale and therefore think everyone should crush on her/her characters. But you know. ;) And I so love Gabi/Kelsi. They'd be so adorable.

Yay! Good luck :)
<3

[stillthere4me]

XDXDXDXD This is so true. And if Gabriella tried to explain it to him, he'd be like "Yeah! I know Ryan is happy! And he's happy because he's flirting with YOU!"

Oh Troy... ;)

Well, Sharpay is incredibly fabulous, and I'm sure at one point everyoen did crush on her. Except maybe Troy. Because that would be her luck...

Gabriella/Kelsi is very cute. :) It's just a little sad that Gabriella doesn't seem to notice. (or maybe she did and was just understanding and cool about it?)

Thanks! Hopefully I'll get it done sooner than expected...
♥

[elvensorceress]

AHAHAHHA! Yes. Poor Gabi. She probably has to explain a lot to him.

Troy does say in the first movie that he thinks Shar is cute. (Chad is all O_o) hehehe... sealed his fate right there?

Gabriella does try to not get attached (and break off relationships when she starts getting too close) so maybe that's why. Maybe she does notice and doesn't feel the same way. (OH NOES THE ANGST!) Either way, I think Taylor/Kelsi works for the long run. :)

<3

[stillthere4me]

XDXD That's probably why they're so good together! She's the only one who has the patience and intelligence to spell things out to him...

XD True, but I always think he's kind of reaching there. (That ice princess line is actually said by ZEKE in the first movie too! Which always shocks me now when I watch that part...)

Yeah, Gabriella does always try and break things off before something bad happens (and with all her moving around, she's probably good at it). Maybe that's what happens between the second and third movie, and why she isn't hanging out with Kelsi as much in the third. Aw, poor Kelsi...

But yes, Taylor and Kelsi does seem to work out pretty well. :)

[elvensorceress]

HAHAHHAA. Oh, Troy. How easy it is to make fun of you...

You mean the "shopping for mirrors" line? Because that was when Zeke called her Ice Princess. (XD He was probably emo because she hadn't agreed to a date. ;) ) Troy calls Shar cute just before Getcha Head in the Game. No petting mountain lions! Oh, Chad. XDXD Oh! And btw... I always thought that part was so funny. Troy's like "I maybe wanna do theater... but only because of cute girls!" and Chad's all "... cute girls? what do they have to do with anything? who likes cutes girls? O_o"

AWWWW Break poor little Kelsi's heart! :(

*campaigns harder for more Taylsi*

[stillthere4me]

XD One of my favorite things to do in this fandom actually. Oh Troy...

Oh, no I knew what you meant! It was just an unusual line considering how adverse he is to her later in the series, and that made me think of another unsual line in the first movie when thinking of the rest of the serires, which brought me to Zeke calling her an ice princess.

XD Yes, although it always kinda worries me that Chad thinks mountain lions are cute...I'm not sure they'd appriciate being called that. Graceful, beautiful, scary, but not cute...or maybe just all girls are scary to him?

:( Yes, poor Kelsi. *hugs Kelsi*

[elvensorceress]

Oh ok. I couldn't remember if I was forgetting him saying it another time. I suppose he can recognize she's cute even though she scares him. Trying to convince Chad to go along with something by saying there are cute girls involved however, not the brightest idea. XD

or maybe just all girls are scary to him?
LOL. Yes. At least when he's supposed to be dating them.

[stillthere4me]

XDXDXD That is true! Oh Chad, sometimes you're even more clueless than Troy...

[elvensorceress]

Well, why would Chad be interested in girls? ;) He's all busy cheerleading and being one of Charlie's Angels. XD

[stillthere4me]

XDXDXD Yesyesyes!

Oh the Charlie's Angels line always gets me...and the cheerleading...XDXD Oh what else could Mr. Ortega possibly have been thinking with those parts...