Thank you Ben Affleck
I had no idea who Keith Olbermann really was, but this rant about Prop 8 has made me an instant fan:
ps. All y'all blaming black people for this mess can kiss my black @ss. Can you imagine this bill getting anywhere under a McCain administration? Yeah, I know you're mad and you need someone to blame, just keep that racist crap to yourselves ( Read more... )
ps. All y'all blaming black people for this mess can kiss my black @ss. Can you imagine this bill getting anywhere under a McCain administration? Yeah, I know you're mad and you need someone to blame, just keep that racist crap to yourselves ( Read more... )
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I've been thinking a bit about Christian history, and learned some things that really knocked my unschooled ass down. And I have to disagree with that part of the statement. I think Jesus' teachings and Christianity are two separate things. So I think you can display hatefulness and that action can still be considered Christian. Christianity is about doctrine that people have shaped (beginning with St. Paul), and that doctrine determines how we interpret his teachings and even what is considered to be his teachers. The good and the bad in people are intertwined and it's the same with religion.
I used to try and separate myself from the "bad" Christians like oh, they're not real Christians, but the fact of the matter is that they are. Many Christians who have done terrible, un-Jesuslike things have also been important in shaping Christian beliefs. If we vote them off the island and they take their stuff with them, that's a whole lot of stuff that'll be gone. We don't have to like them and we certainly must challenge them, but we can't revoke their Christian citizenship.
Of course, since I've drifted away from much of the current interpretations of Christian doctrine, as well as the fundamentals of Pauline Christianity, it's probably time for me to give up my Christian citizenship. Hmmm.
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Some of the actions taken against gays are completely anti-Biblical and in direct contradiction with God's word. I write a bit more about it in the next post, but ultimately the decision of how to manifest the hatred of homosexuality is a man made concept. God says to do nothing more outside of prayer. He's the one who takes care of judging sinners (as it were), not us.
There is absolutely no difference between Jesus' teachings and Christianity, but I do agree that the two are not mutually exclusive. It's more like a law of contrapositives. You can follow Jesus' teachings and not be a Christian, but you CANNOT claim to be Christian and not follow Jesus' teachings. One is an act of influence and interpretation and one is a vow that you've taken to live your life in a way that is Holy and strives for perfection.
It's people who have done un-Christianlike things in the name of Christianity that have tainted the pure goodness of the religion. I definitely say they need to be voted off the island. The only influence you need is God's. A huge argument I always have is exactly this. You can't live your life doing dirt and then try to preach God's work and think the two cancel each other out because they do not. I'm not necessarily a works based believer, but I do believe your actions are a representation of your faith and if you're showcasing your faith in a way that's consistently anti-Biblical then you will be held accountable on the other side.
Ahem... so says me again.
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God says to do nothing more outside of prayer. He's the one who takes care of judging sinners (as it were), not us.
The thing here is, that you can do nothing explicitly hateful and still encourage intolerance and injustice. Evil works far more effectively through inertia and self-interest and avoidance of discomfort than actual hate.
You can follow Jesus' teachings and not be a Christian, but you CANNOT claim to be Christian and not follow Jesus' teachings. One is an act of influence and interpretation and one is a vow that you've taken to live your life in a way that is Holy and strives for perfection.
I guess our difference is how we classify Christians and why. How does one determine that you're living a holy life? Is wishing people no harm, praying faithfully, following the personal morals you feel to be God's Law, good enough in a world that demands actual sacrifice and work to combat injustice? Can you emulate Jesus' example, only enough to be a nice person and comfortable, and still call that a holy life?
For me, heretic as it sounds, the Christian label is about practicality of numbers. The vast majority of Christians do not seriously follow through in emulating Jesus' example. What we determine to be sin and what we perceive to be a holy life to be is shaped by their theology. I feel like, if we vote those people out, who've been there since the very beginning, it means that every single thing that we believe as modern Christians has to be re-evaluated under divine guidance and most of it could be tossed. It doesn't make sense to me, to put aside Christians who aren't wholly devoted to the entirety of Jesus' teachings and example, and let the beliefs of similar people further up in history shape one's own understanding of God.
I feel that there are many people who are true believers, who are doing their best in living what they feel (and what they've been taught to believe) is a holy life, who don't spread hate, and are good people (and you feel it) but have positioned themselves in a way that perpetuates and reinforces injustice. (I'm talking generally, beyond queer issues.) And it's because their belief of what constitutes a holy life, is well short of the example that Jesus provides, which is an active stance in fighting injustice as part of one's divine purpose.
So where do we draw this line? Are we even in the position to draw this line? This is something beyond religion, and a matter of human nature and the struggle we have to embrace the divine. Even though its easy to spot and pull out people with obviously hypocritical lives, there is still a large mass of believers who aren't (though they often follow those hypocrites) and yet still support destructive institutions.
Good discussion!
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I understand what you mean, but I don't know. I think this is one of the cases where apathy (eg not voting, not protesting, not hating) is okay. Though, if that same inertia involves not schooling others about their actions then it can be a bad thing. I think there are different degrees of involvement there.
Can you emulate Jesus' example, only enough to be a nice person and comfortable, and still call that a holy life?
I think the important phrase here is "only enough". We are to STRIVE daily to live Holy and striving means endlessly working to adhere to God's word. Everything we need is located in the book of life and as long as we are mindful of it in our daily walk then that constitutes as striving to live Holy.
Being Christian is one of the hardest things to do because you are constantly questioning yourself and your motivations. Are the steps that I'm taking in line with that of Christ? If I were to die now what would be written in my book and would I be proud of that? What impact have I made on the world and was Christ seen through it?
The vast majority of Christians do not seriously follow through in emulating Jesus' example.
Then they aren't seriously Christians, IMO.
What we determine to be sin and what we perceive to be a holy life to be is shaped by their theology. I feel like, if we vote those people out, who've been there since the very beginning, it means that every single thing that we believe as modern Christians has to be re-evaluated
I'd like you to be a bit more specific about this and here's why: Noah got drunk and exposed himself and yet he was still a holy man. Aaron was a priest but still melted down gold to create an idol for worship. Moses struck the rock instead of speaking to it but he led an entire generation out of slavery.
These are men of God who made mistakes because they were human, but because they were holy they repented and were forgiven. True holy living is identified by the realization that you are not perfect and are going to mess up and will be forgiven through the blood of Christ.
What I see happen is people take advantage of this forgiveness, call themselves Christians, live any way they want and then hope that nightly prayer will reserve them a spot on the roster. I think the world would be a lot better off without these people because it gives an inaccurate representation of what Christianity is.
It's a journey, but also specifically not just the belief in God, but also in His son Jesus and that Jesus died on the cross that we might be free. If you can say you appreciate that sacrifice and love God, but you can still have the nerve to openly hate on anyone in God's name then you're creating a grave sin just in that.
Now the gay/Christian struggle I still get because it's something I still deal with. This is why I can endorse general apathy at this point. I study apologetics and the Bible basically covers itself of everything except homosexuality. There has to be a lot more study done in order to find out exactly why it was denounced and how that applies to us today, so I get people still being up in arms about it.
One thing the Bible is clear about though is loving our neighbors as ourselves and allowing God the control to decide what to do with their souls. We've taken that away from God by trying to legislate every section of their lives and it's gotten gross and totally out of control.
And yes, as you see, I loves to discuss! :D
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