"I do this with my own hand."

[grace_poppy]

He looked at it critically, and said, more or less to himself, "If it could undertake the one task, it must undertake the other: that is but justice."

I was talking to

Comments

[adeline7g]

Interesting topic!

I have always thought it was a combination of all those things. Certainly Stephen would place more trust in himself to perform the surgery, than in the hands of M'Alister or the military surgeons at the hospital. However, M'Alister wasn't incompetent, so it seems he was more driven by pride and self-punishment than anything else.

Pride, which shows in his haughty manners leading up to the surgery, insisting that the davier was forged exactly as he had designed. Plus when he finished the surgery, Jack observed that Stephen had a look of "surly triumph" on his face. Perhaps Stephen was trying to prove his toughness, as he always does.

As for the self-punishment, well, the quote you posted at the beginning says it all, doesn't it?

BTW, that passage about the cannonades also never fails to put a smile on my face. I love landlubber!Stephen :)

[grace_poppy]

I'm not sure why, but I just love the "look of surly triumph" on Stephen's face, as well as M'Alister's "competent back, expressing ease and a share in the triumph" as he sews and bandages him back up.

Pride, yes - justifiable pride, I'd say, in the case of his exact design for the davier, and his toughness, and his competence. Hmm. I need to muse on it a while longer.

[ozfille]

I plump for the first explanation but his poor opinion of military surgeons may have been justified. They were from the army after all and even Stephen the most non-nautical of creatures may have absorbed some of the contempt the navy men had for the army.

Re: Jack-and-Stephen passage - Jack's wit can be as dry as Stephen's on occasions. I love it when he teases poor lubberly Stephen.

[grace_poppy]

So I wonder, if the events had been more like in the movie and he was just shot with a stray bullet - would he have let the military doctors operate on him then?

But I have a feeling he would think the same of army AND navy "surgeons." He himself is a physician, and more highly trained and skilled than normal navy surgeons. I would think he'd judge fairly between general navy men and army men though. I think.

[des_pudels_kern]

Clearly self-punishment! He didn't want to take Canning's life, but he wasn't good enough not to, so he punishes himself! Stephen has, catholic or not, way to many (too much? too high?) morals, and expects a lot from hisself. *fangirls*

[grace_poppy]

Poor dear Stephen, he does have very high morals and is very jugdemental of himself.

[des_pudels_kern]

Oh yes, *sigh* poor dear Stephen. *fangirls some more*

I´ve often wondered the same- with different results...

[max_und_moritz]

Just some food for wormy thoughts

Re: I´ve often wondered the same- with different results...

[grace_poppy]

You're so unfair in blaming Stephen for all his own suffering, saying he brings it onto himself! (And by the way, you never saw the last comments in our earlier discussion (or maybe you did but were tired of talking about detestable Stephen.) It's not as if trusting Martinez, visiting St. Paul's Rocks, or giving Dil bracelets were acts of reckless abandon. (And Bath, heehee, was something enjoyable and restorative. If you want trial by water, I'd say St. Paul's Rocks would be better. Oh! And trial by fire could be his fever after the operation! But now I'm getting carried away. Quit distracting me! You're doing this on purpose! :P

[max_und_moritz]

Found that discussion again and read your newer posts, thank you! (who really are gripped by this maddening fellow, hmm?) You raised some very good points, and I tried to answer them

[grace_poppy]

It´s you alone feeding the Homo Catalans theories

Eh, what? Do you mean I am fueling your theories

Doctor psychology speculation

[soho_iced]

Really interesting point: personally I incline more towards the 'pride and obstinacy' argument. (I'd say Steven's tendency to self-harm shows more in his drug abuse.) I always thought training as a doctor - even now when they are so much more knowledgeable and effective - must involve cultivating a rock-hard belief in your own competence and authority, not only to reassure the patient but because being paralysed with indecision will never be the right decision for him/her: also because at some level the idea that your mistake has harmed your patient must be so hard to bear. I'm not saying that doctors can never admit they are wrong, just that at the point of decision they must be in the habit of dismissing, even if only temporarily, any doubts they may have

More gory talk if you're squeamish!

[grace_poppy]

Very good points, all of them

Re: More gory talk if you're squeamish!

[soho_iced]

Ow ow! I've never been seriously hurt like that: I've only needed stitches once, when I cut my finger slicing some cheese (not a very *heroic* injury somehow). I think you're right: it's as if the 'pain' nerve signals are received by the brain but it then interprets them depending on what else is going on in the brain at that moment, so even badly injured people may not feel any pain at all for a while. I even think there is some scientific evidence: I read a popular-science type book. (Can't remember the author: it was just called 'Pain' and amazon.co.uk has 5,000 plus books with that word in the title, which is depressing in itself

Re: More gory talk if you're squeamish!

[grace_poppy]

So would you rather operate on yourself to remove a bullet, or climb the futtock shrouds? I think I'd choose the first, actually! Though that would involve getting SHOT too, so that makes it awkward. If it was JUST the operation, and no befores or afters, I think I'd rather do that than climb to the foretop with no safety harness.