Help?

[stellamira]

You know you research too much when you...

... try to compare NSync's schedule for PopOdyssey and the calendars of high schools across the US, trying to find a date that would make it possible for Dean and Sam to go to an NSync concert

Comments

[ninjetti75]

Heeee!!!

Actually, it tends to vary depending on where in the country you're talking about. The school year ends in late May/early June, oftentimes with the graduating class finishing a few days earlier than the undergraduate years, but on the other hand, many high school classes have mixed years in them, so the final exams still have to happen for everyone at the same time. College acceptance letters also vary, since it's up to the individual school on when they send them, but mid-to-late winter or early spring seem to be the most common.

The other thing to consider is that Dean is FOUR years older than Sam, meaning that unless Dean repeated a year of school or got held back (which is actually quite possible, given the nature of their upbringing) Dean would have graduated high school the year before Sam started. And junior high schools operate on a less fixed schedule than high schools, so there's no real reason you couldn't fudge a date through creative license. Any Friday night or Saturday in late May or very early June would

[stellamira]

Actually, it tends to vary depending on where in the country you're talking about.

I feared it would. Late May/early June is a tight fit, but I can work with that (the thing is, I already started the story with Sam demanding to be driven to school, and I kinda like it this way, or I'd have a larger timeframe). Anyway, thanks for the info, you all are a much better source than wikipedia.

I think it's sad that Dean and Sam didn't go to high school together. All the embarrassment Sam never had to suffer from that would've been caused by Dean's behavior.

And I can't WAIT to see a SPN/*NSYNC crossover

:) Uh, it might take a while, though.

[madame_d]

Dean isn't dumb, by any means, but he makes an impression of someone who doesn't have the patience for book-learning. Like, Sam would be buried up to his ears in a book, reading about physics, whereas Dean would be out and about, trying to defy laws thereof to learn about it, you know?

Considering how much they moved around, and how different public school systems are within a state, not to mention inter-state, it actually does stand to reason that one or both of the guys were held back. Another consideration is that after Mary died, Dean was supposed to start kindergarten the following September, and it's quite possible that John kept him home not only for safety's sake but also to help with baby!Sammy. If Dean started school a year later, he would be in his last year when Sam started high school.

Um. I should maybe stop pondering all of this.

[stellamira]

Dean isn't dumb at all, but he also makes it quite clear that he wasn't interested in the subjects a high school would consider important, like history or literature. I bet he loved science, though.

Um. I should maybe stop pondering all of this.

Not at all! The problem is that you can probably never use that anywhere without awkwardly explaining or having a hundred people point out to you how very wrong you are, because it's not canon (yet). However, I can very well imagine that Dean was held back a year (which, I guess means that after moving someplace new, he got sorted into a lower grade than the one he'd been in before the move?) while Sam wasn't, because Sam's always been super smart and Dean might've not caught up so fast, either because he couldn't or because he didn't want to.

[madame_d]

he wasn't interested in the subjects a high school would consider important, like history or literature.

Point, but I refuse to believe he'd do badly enough in those classes to fail them, because failure of basic classes isn't an option; they make you take them (through summer school) until you pass. So, I'm sure that Dean would've picked the lesser of two evils (paying enough attention to pass vs spending summer in school).

which, I guess means that after moving someplace new, he got sorted into a lower grade than the one he'd been in before the move?

You know, I'm trying to remember if I've ever heard of it, because usually, if you move within the state during the year, they'd just stick you in the same grade you were in, barring failing grades. I had to repeat a grade, but I moved countries, and had to deal with the language barrier and completely different education systems

[stellamira]

he got sorted into a lower grade than the one he'd been in before the move?
You know, I'm trying to remember if I've ever heard of it,

Well, it was a nice theory. What exactly does it mean then, keeping someone back, if it's different from repeating a class? Or is it the same thing?

if you fail a class, they make you go to summer school

That's quite cool, I think. You can't really fail a class here, but you'll have to repeat the whole year if your grades are too bad, they don't give you the chance to repeat only certain subjects. Summer school ruins any plans for vacations, though, and I agree that Dean probably picked the lesser evil.

John would make the boys keep track of that

I always squirm when I read a story where John drags the boys around, regardless of school, because that's not how I see him at all. I even think he wanted his kids to be educated, to a certain extent (which certainly did not include unnecessary stuff like art or musical education).

John kept Dean at home an extra year, before letting him go to school.

[madame_d]

Keeping someone back, to me, is making someone repeat the entire grade; take the same classes over - usually when a student's grades are crappy or they'd missed too many days of school, for whatever reason. However, if a student passes all but one class, they can make him/her repeat that class in summer school. I actually emailed someone who'd have exact information; I'm waiting for her to weigh in with her opinion. :)

I even think he wanted his kids to be educated, to a certain extent

I agree, though mostly because Sam never would've gotten into Stanford if his school record was that spotty with constant relocations. Sure, John might've dragged the boys on hunts with him when they were in high school, maybe, but I'm sure he was the one to go hunting and leave the boys with Caleb or Pastor Jim and actually stay in the same location for a while.

which certainly did not include unnecessary stuff like art or musical educationIn many schools, especially in this generation, educators are finding it important to make kids well-

[stellamira]

I actually emailed someone who'd have exact information

Yay.

I'm sure he was the one to go hunting and leave the boys with Caleb or Pastor Jim

Or on their own. I could be wrong, but I've always had the impression that John didn't let them hunt much anyway, at least not when they were younger. Of course he taught them everything and had them learn how to fight, but more for self-defence? He probably disarmed whatever it was Dean's talking about in Bloodlust himself before he let Dean finish it.

or he could've auditioned

Oh, can you imagine the look on John's face when Sam told him that he actually auditioned for something that takes up extra time instead of being required to do it?

[madame_d]

Oh, can you imagine the look on John's face when Sam told him that he actually auditioned for something that takes up extra time instead of being required to do it?See, there are certain things that you definitely need to reach for so that they'd make sense. Sam in Stanford being one of them, especially since Stanford is kind of hard to get into. I get that he's smart and probably did well on his standardized tests, but nowadays, grades and tests aren't the main factors - you need to have awesome recommendations, and interesting and involved extracurriculars, and a near-perfect school record, and also, probably an incredibly impressive interview. Which means that not only did Sam need to stay in one place for a while, but also participate in a variety of college-impressive activities to make himself just a worthy contender

[stellamira]

I'm going to keep my mouth shut making assumptions about the US education system now. But it's cool, nobody ever tells you these things. I read a story once where Dean and Sam pretend to go out and practice a lot, but really, Dean drives Sam to his extracurricular activities at school. I found that was a neat solution.

But it made me think, just now, that maybe it *wasn't* the norm.

I really don't know. I mean, there are signs for both. Dean shooting this thing when he was sixteen (I can't remember right now if it was his first), their general experience, Sam's "we grew up like warriors". On the other hand, we've got John leaving the boys in the motel room in Something Wicked, John apparently leaving often and for long enough to pay multiple visits to the Roadhouse without his kids ever noticing, or the fact that they need to look up about half the things they hunt in John's journal.

I guess the main problem might be that we fans think about this a lot more than the actual writers. :)

[madame_d]

I'm going to keep my mouth shut making assumptions about the US education system now.

HAHAHA. It's remarkable how much shit they demand and all the paces they make you go through just to get into college, and how little they teach you for your 40 grand a year for 4 years before releasing you upon the world. :)

I guess the main problem might be that we fans think about this a lot more than the actual writers. :)

I think they're definitely more about 'living in the moment' and crossing the Rubicon once they reach it. ;)

[jewelianna]

You're right on the nose. Most schools require you to attend a certain number of days in order to be promoted. If you have more than 'x' percent of the days missed as unexcused absences, you automatically fail. We called it 'percenting out' when I was in HS. The district where I work now calls it the 'minimum attendance rule.' Too many demon hunts and suddenly, Dean's held back. It's a really low number- something like four days a term, or 10%, so it's easy to hit with just one week of unexplained absences.

As far as failing courses, fail one, no consequence. Fail two or three, summer school. Fail four, retention.

A parent can also request a kid be retained if they think he's not mature enough, or sadly, not growing fast enough to keep up with his classmates.

Also, do we know when the guys birthdays are? If Dean's is after September, it could be he wasn't allowed to start Kindergarten until he was 6, since most districts won't let you start at age 4.

[madame_d]

Also, do we know when the guys birthdays are?

Um. Yes. Dean's is January 24, 1979, and Sam's May 2, 1983. C'mon, you knew that.

[jewelianna]

I didn't, but I asked Amy last night and she reminded me of the computer screen in NightShifter.

[madame_d]

There was also a computer scene in The Benders - 1x15. And the fact that Mary died on November 2nd, when Sam (and all babies like him) were exactly 6 months old. :)

[stellamira]

Thanks for the info! For the absence to be "excused", is it enough if the parents say he or she is sick (or whatever else might be the reason for not going to school)? Or do US schools want something from a doctor for that?