You raise some interesting points about Sam and Dean and their respective need for each other. People tend to make a lot of Dean's need for Sam, but between the two of them, Dean is the one who has repeatedly survived Sam walking out on him; we've only once seen Dean attempt to do the same, and Sam's reaction was of barely controlled panic.
Sam has tended to be extremely possessive of Dean and I think we see that reflected far more openly in S4 than we have before. "Possessive" sounds like it should be a negative term, but I'm not meaning it in a creepy stalker sort of way because it seems unconscious on Sam's part. Just look at his pitching the phone across the room though when Dean refused to return to the motel in 4x14, or his furious, worried "Dammit!" when Uriel and Castiel took Dean in 4x16, or even again last night, when Sam jumped on the connection he felt with Dean via the dreams. I think that it ties in with what you said about Dean being Sam's constant. It's one thing to run away to Stanford and live a normal life, so long as Sam knew Dean was still out there and would be there for him if ever it was needed. Dean being in Hell or just otherwise out of Sam's reach? That shit is just not on.
Which goes back to the whole thing about Sam not really knowing Dean. If Sam knew Dean like Dean knows Sam (or perhaps knew Sam, given that there's a lot about that man that's changed that it took Dean a while to pick up on), then he would not have treated Dean as he has pretty much throughout S4. And if he doesn't wise up, Sam might have to face Dean walking out on him completely of his own free will.
I do love the implication that Dean has had to mold himself to being whatever Sam and John have needed, as well. Dean's personal growth has had its roots in defining himself outside of where he stands with John and Sam. It's been a slow but solid path and Dean has changed significantly as he's discovered who he is and what he wants for himself outside of the path previously laid out for him.
All in all, despite 4x17 feeling like an affirmation of their relationship in many ways, that line about Sam having no idea who Dean is just keeps ringing in my head. I so want to have some meta really diving into that topic and I really, really hope it's not brushed under the rug in future episodes.
Yes, I agree with the way that you've put it. Dean pretty much created his entire world when he was younger, and though Sam certainly pushed the boundaries, I think he counts on there being boundaries to push. I think the worst moment actually was when Sam lied to Dean's face in Death Takes a Holiday and Dean just didn't care. Because his Sam is gone, like he said, and the Sam he knows is a stranger.
Which, yeah, the whole, "I don't know you, you don't know me' would definitely be a really good topic to meta on 'cause it's been so prevalent this season. I think you're right about Sam, that Dean's going to leave and he's going to be shocked. Originally I thought Ruby would leave him and he'd come running to Dean but I guess they're going all the way with that, accept no substitutes.
Dean's personal growth has had its roots in defining himself outside of where he stands with John and Sam
Yeah, so true. And that's why I was kind of suspicious of Zachariah even though it was nice to hear him give Dean a pep talk because he was still telling Dean who Dean was. Which Dean may kind of need right now in terms of a push but - all that stuff about becoming who he was meant to be made it sound like Zachariah has a plan for him regardless of what Dean wants.
though Sam certainly pushed the boundaries, I think he counts on there being boundaries to push
I think that's exactly it. Sam can push the boundaries because Dean's always been there to create them for him. When Dean died, those boundaries were removed; no wonder Sam's spiraling out of control now!
Originally I thought Ruby would leave him and he'd come running to Dean but I guess they're going all the way with that, accept no substitutes.
I don't see Ruby leaving Sam (though I hope at some point Sam leaves Ruby). I think they've hinted at Dean leaving throughout the season and I hope they do go there at some point, if only to have the brilliant reunion later on. If I thought for a minute that any separation would be permanent, I'd be upset and worried, but as is, I'm looking forward to a huge blow out fight and a reconciliation later.
Dean may kind of need right now in terms of a push but - all that stuff about becoming who he was meant to be made it sound like Zachariah has a plan for him regardless of what Dean wants
I don't trust Zachariah at all. Everything he said seems incredibly suspect to me, to the point where I'm fairly sure he's a red herring. He definitely doesn't have Dean's best interests at heart, regardless of whether he's actually working for the side of what's light and holy. And even if he is, he's already outright stated that he's acting to manipulate Dean into doing what he, Zachariah, wants. All his ducks in a row, nothing!
Sam has tended to be extremely possessive of Dean and I think we see that reflected far more openly in S4 than we have before. "Possessive" sounds like it should be a negative term, but I'm not meaning it in a creepy stalker sort of way because it seems unconscious on Sam's part. Just look at his pitching the phone across the room though when Dean refused to return to the motel in 4x14, or his furious, worried "Dammit!" when Uriel and Castiel took Dean in 4x16, or even again last night, when Sam jumped on the connection he felt with Dean via the dreams. I think that it ties in with what you said about Dean being Sam's constant. It's one thing to run away to Stanford and live a normal life, so long as Sam knew Dean was still out there and would be there for him if ever it was needed. Dean being in Hell or just otherwise out of Sam's reach? That shit is just not on.
Which goes back to the whole thing about Sam not really knowing Dean. If Sam knew Dean like Dean knows Sam (or perhaps knew Sam, given that there's a lot about that man that's changed that it took Dean a while to pick up on), then he would not have treated Dean as he has pretty much throughout S4. And if he doesn't wise up, Sam might have to face Dean walking out on him completely of his own free will.
I do love the implication that Dean has had to mold himself to being whatever Sam and John have needed, as well. Dean's personal growth has had its roots in defining himself outside of where he stands with John and Sam. It's been a slow but solid path and Dean has changed significantly as he's discovered who he is and what he wants for himself outside of the path previously laid out for him.
All in all, despite 4x17 feeling like an affirmation of their relationship in many ways, that line about Sam having no idea who Dean is just keeps ringing in my head. I so want to have some meta really diving into that topic and I really, really hope it's not brushed under the rug in future episodes.
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Yes, I agree with the way that you've put it. Dean pretty much created his entire world when he was younger, and though Sam certainly pushed the boundaries, I think he counts on there being boundaries to push. I think the worst moment actually was when Sam lied to Dean's face in Death Takes a Holiday and Dean just didn't care. Because his Sam is gone, like he said, and the Sam he knows is a stranger.
Which, yeah, the whole, "I don't know you, you don't know me' would definitely be a really good topic to meta on 'cause it's been so prevalent this season. I think you're right about Sam, that Dean's going to leave and he's going to be shocked. Originally I thought Ruby would leave him and he'd come running to Dean but I guess they're going all the way with that, accept no substitutes.
Dean's personal growth has had its roots in defining himself outside of where he stands with John and Sam
Yeah, so true. And that's why I was kind of suspicious of Zachariah even though it was nice to hear him give Dean a pep talk because he was still telling Dean who Dean was. Which Dean may kind of need right now in terms of a push but - all that stuff about becoming who he was meant to be made it sound like Zachariah has a plan for him regardless of what Dean wants.
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I think that's exactly it. Sam can push the boundaries because Dean's always been there to create them for him. When Dean died, those boundaries were removed; no wonder Sam's spiraling out of control now!
Originally I thought Ruby would leave him and he'd come running to Dean but I guess they're going all the way with that, accept no substitutes.
I don't see Ruby leaving Sam (though I hope at some point Sam leaves Ruby). I think they've hinted at Dean leaving throughout the season and I hope they do go there at some point, if only to have the brilliant reunion later on. If I thought for a minute that any separation would be permanent, I'd be upset and worried, but as is, I'm looking forward to a huge blow out fight and a reconciliation later.
Dean may kind of need right now in terms of a push but - all that stuff about becoming who he was meant to be made it sound like Zachariah has a plan for him regardless of what Dean wants
I don't trust Zachariah at all. Everything he said seems incredibly suspect to me, to the point where I'm fairly sure he's a red herring. He definitely doesn't have Dean's best interests at heart, regardless of whether he's actually working for the side of what's light and holy. And even if he is, he's already outright stated that he's acting to manipulate Dean into doing what he, Zachariah, wants. All his ducks in a row, nothing!
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