REALLY HUGE SPOILERS PERTAINING TO SNAPE

Jul 16, 2005 16:02

Warning - this is long. And babbly.

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sherlockh July 16 2005, 22:59:29 UTC
Yeah, Dumbledore's manipulation bothered me. Doesn't match with his otherwise courteous nature. But he didn't die helplessly. You don't need a wand to be powerful, and Dumbledore always knew that. He had the situation---almost---under control, despite the major disadvantage of not having a wand and facing four (or was it five?) enemies, when Snape got there. I thought he was begging Snape not to kill him, but hmmmm. That wouldn't really fit Dumbledore's character, would it?

Snape...I dunno. Must do much thinking on that.

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starpaint July 16 2005, 23:11:26 UTC
I think the control was a matter of luck - Draco, and only Draco, was supposed to kill him, and he had made Draco hesitant. Unless this sort of initiation wasn't unusual, and Dumbledore was familiar with it; or if Dumbledore was astute enough to work it out; or if Snape had told him about the stupid plan and his position in it, which is possible but also really effin' weird and makes my head hurt. In that case, Dumbledore was buying enough time to make Draco uneasy, refuse to act, and turn to Dumbledore for protection. And he was buying time either way.

What he was really in control of was himself.

...if Snape did tell Dumbledore, then that plea... then Dumbledore knew he was going to die because Snape had come. How horrible ( ... )

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sherlockh July 16 2005, 23:19:28 UTC
Harry leaves things up to luck all the time, but Dumbledore never---well, rarely---does. You never know how much Dumbledore knows or doesn't know: we know he doesn't know everything, but he knows a heck of a lot more than anyone thinks. So how much did he know, and how much did he guess, and was he just pretending to know, as a way to get control of the situation.

Good point about the trauma. I wish we knew more about what that potion did. Hmmm...why couldn't they just pour it out on the ground? Why did he have to drink it?

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starpaint July 16 2005, 23:31:09 UTC
Quite. It makes it so, so hard to tell what's going on. But it's almost certain that Dumbledore knew something, and even if he didn't, he caught on very fast. It was rather obvious that Draco was supposed to be killing him and was afraid to. And, even with backing, would probably still be afraid to. It's just that he really didn't need to know more - unless 'please' is as important as I've been making it out to be.

Methinks there's some sort of enchantment (which Dumbledore has seen before, and in my head, used by Grindewald) or binding magic (similar to blood magic; is there any way that emerald green potion could translate to bread and salt?) involved, that Dumbledore knew about. We don't, and we may or may not find out.

A friend is contemplating this -- will link you if you like -- essence of dementor or boggart, maybe. Childish syntax, fear; he doesn't like it, he doesn't want to do it (something he's being forced into doing), he's guilt-stricken, he wants it to stop. Mix of memory and worst nightmare, maybe...

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stubbyboardman July 16 2005, 23:21:41 UTC
Dumbledore already wanted Snape there, before they had even seen the dark mark. Maybe not to be healed as we probably all initally thought.

I'm sure Dumbledore figured out that it wasn't an initiation either. Voldemort was punishing Lucius by involving Draco. That kind of cruelty would hardly be surprising. It's interesting that Regulus Black comes up in the speculation. How very like Draco's present situation!

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