I spent some time reading LJ yesterday, and one comment was that most LJ posts aren't interesting. I wondered, then, what would make a post interesting
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Blizzard turned around and allowed the guild for fear of seeming "insensitive", from what my friends tell me.
I know what you say is definitely true on LJ. You pick and choose through hundreds of thousands of users, friending people that you specifically care to talk to. Your journal is more of a forum, one that you set the topic for each day. If people don't play nice over your topics, you can ban them.
There are plenty of "discussions of sex" going on in-game between both straight and gay players. I'm sure Blizzard is well aware of that fact, too. And if "you don't want to deal with that" in-game, obviously you don't have to join that guild, or any other in which sex might be discussed. If an individual player tries to discuss sex with you, it's quite easy to /ignore him or her.
I don't agree that "by opening up the discussion, you're opening up the way to be ostracized for what you do in private." Basically, you're arguing that if gay people don't want to be ostracized, they should be secretive about their lives. Straight people aren't expected to be secretive. It isn't just about what you do in private, in your bedroom. Couples -- gay or straight -- do not live their lives solely in bed. Being gay isn't just about who you have sex with; it's about who you want to spend your life with, the same way it is for straight couples.
I'm actually going a little broader than just orientation and talking about kinks as well, but yes, you picked up the obvious weak point in the statements I made.
Although I'd counter that being gay is, in fact, about who you want to have sex with. If you were just spending your life together, you wouldn't be gay.
Being straight isn't just about who you have sex with either. Whether you are gay or straight, it's about who you fall in love with, who you have romantic relationships with. And those things involve a lot more than just sex. That was my point.
Yes, and my point is that your orientation determines who you potentially might 'fall in love with'.
I would never 'fall in love with' someone who is not of my preferred partner gender.
Conversely, I was in a commited monogamous relationship with someone who I wasn't engaged in sexual relations with. This just led me to say, "what the fuck am I bothering with this for anyway." That I stayed in said relationship for a year after that says something about the complexity of this question.
If the sexual element is missing, you're friends, no matter what you want to call it. I'm sure there are exceptions, as there always are.
Although I have to admit, how would one go about a romantic relationship with no sexual interest involved? To me, sexual potential is tied to romance, in some senses.
My sexual orientation came up yesterday at a Memorial Day picnic. I did not do it; except obliquely. My neighbors did, sort of, because they could not figure out the relationships between me, my partner, our kids, and my partner's boyfriend.
Who is doing what to whom in bed (or on the couch or whatever) was not anyone's concern but ours. But my neighbors deeply and desperately wanted to understand the social dynamics involved. His car is in front of our house a lot. He obviously gets along very well with the kids. We are all comfortable together, etc.
Sexual orientation is one of the orientations people rely on socially. Some sets and permutations have rules everyone knows; others do not. When people are met with the unfamiliar they try to slot it into a preexisting box. That doesn't always work.
As long as I have to keep explaining to people that no one is having an affair, my sex life will come up in public conversation. (Of course I don't have to answer; but sometimes it is important to do
( ... )
I agree with the concerns about bias, but the question was "is this legal" - at least the main concern was, though there was a certain element of "what should I do".
These concerns are independant of any sort of gender/orientation/whatever. It is, at the heart of it, bad interactions between two people that need to be fixed.
That actually came up at compliance training, the whole question of how orientation bleeds over into social interaction.
The example given was how a social with 'spouses invited' might end up outing someone who wasn't ready to be out at work, plus the whole 'spouses' thing is sort of exclusionary.
There were some strategies on how to deal with it from a management perspective, suffice to say, it's quite complex.
The WoW guild: I can definitely understand a 'gay friendly' guild, not for talking about sex but simply for being able to maintain normal conversation without being called a fag. If I want to say, for example, 'hey, the new female night elf design is hot' (bear with me, I don't play WoW) then as a gay girl I run the immediate risk of alienating my fellow players. That's not talking about sex. That's smalltalk among adolescent peers. 'Announcing' your preference is something lots of het people do casually, every day, as they talk about their favorite actors or what their boyfriend said the other day. If my girlfriend made some funny WoW-related joke and I want to share it with my friends in-game, do I have to remember to call her my 'friend'? Do I have to immediately check myself? Or can I have the option of joining a group who won't care?
Can you really tell me that an unthinking "Dude, my girlfriend said the same thing! Spooky." is talking about what kind of sex I like to have?
being able to maintain normal conversation without being called a fag.
Having been in a number of guilds over 5 years of MMOs, I've found that you don't have to be 'gay friendly' to meet this.
The guilds I tend to be in are more 'casual, family oriented', which is a keyphrase for 'older people'. No one is perfect, but they do well enough with diverse topics.
And the night elf models are a bad example, 'cause straight women think they are hot ;)
Mmkay, so you know the code and how to find the nicer guilds. Great! I wouldn't. Also, if the night elf model was a bad example, how 'bout the other one? If I've been playing with them for several months, they're all convinced I'm female, and I mention a girlfriend? The question again, is: is that announcing or flaunting my sexuality? Is that an explicit discussion of what kind of sex I like to have?
I think you are being unkind (which I am about to be myself) or shorting those who find most LJ posts uninteresting. I personally find them generally dull because they consist of "My dog peed yesterday," "I woke up and made toast," "I hate my life," and other such mundane mutterings. Who cares? I don't care if people think like me. I prefer that they write about something INTERESTING or if they insist on the details of their uninspiring life, they should do it with some style or whimsy.
I want my brain stimulated not put to sleep. I have a TV for that other thing.
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I know what you say is definitely true on LJ. You pick and choose through hundreds of thousands of users, friending people that you specifically care to talk to. Your journal is more of a forum, one that you set the topic for each day. If people don't play nice over your topics, you can ban them.
Everyone play nice in wonderland, kay?
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I don't agree that "by opening up the discussion, you're opening up the way to be ostracized for what you do in private." Basically, you're arguing that if gay people don't want to be ostracized, they should be secretive about their lives. Straight people aren't expected to be secretive. It isn't just about what you do in private, in your bedroom. Couples -- gay or straight -- do not live their lives solely in bed. Being gay isn't just about who you have sex with; it's about who you want to spend your life with, the same way it is for straight couples.
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Although I'd counter that being gay is, in fact, about who you want to have sex with. If you were just spending your life together, you wouldn't be gay.
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I would never 'fall in love with' someone who is not of my preferred partner gender.
Conversely, I was in a commited monogamous relationship with someone who I wasn't engaged in sexual relations with. This just led me to say, "what the fuck am I bothering with this for anyway." That I stayed in said relationship for a year after that says something about the complexity of this question.
If the sexual element is missing, you're friends, no matter what you want to call it. I'm sure there are exceptions, as there always are.
Although I have to admit, how would one go about a romantic relationship with no sexual interest involved? To me, sexual potential is tied to romance, in some senses.
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hmm.
My sexual orientation came up yesterday at a Memorial Day picnic. I did not do it; except obliquely. My neighbors did, sort of, because they could not figure out the relationships between me, my partner, our kids, and my partner's boyfriend.
Who is doing what to whom in bed (or on the couch or whatever) was not anyone's concern but ours. But my neighbors deeply and desperately wanted to understand the social dynamics involved. His car is in front of our house a lot. He obviously gets along very well with the kids. We are all comfortable together, etc.
Sexual orientation is one of the orientations people rely on socially. Some sets and permutations have rules everyone knows; others do not. When people are met with the unfamiliar they try to slot it into a preexisting box. That doesn't always work.
As long as I have to keep explaining to people that no one is having an affair, my sex life will come up in public conversation. (Of course I don't have to answer; but sometimes it is important to do ( ... )
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(The comment has been removed)
These concerns are independant of any sort of gender/orientation/whatever. It is, at the heart of it, bad interactions between two people that need to be fixed.
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The example given was how a social with 'spouses invited' might end up outing someone who wasn't ready to be out at work, plus the whole 'spouses' thing is sort of exclusionary.
There were some strategies on how to deal with it from a management perspective, suffice to say, it's quite complex.
Reply
Can you really tell me that an unthinking "Dude, my girlfriend said the same thing! Spooky." is talking about what kind of sex I like to have?
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Having been in a number of guilds over 5 years of MMOs, I've found that you don't have to be 'gay friendly' to meet this.
The guilds I tend to be in are more 'casual, family oriented', which is a keyphrase for 'older people'. No one is perfect, but they do well enough with diverse topics.
And the night elf models are a bad example, 'cause straight women think they are hot ;)
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The difference to me is in a guild being impersonal where a person is more personal. If someone I've known for a while wants to share that, great.
Which I know is a non-answer to your question.
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I want my brain stimulated not put to sleep. I have a TV for that other thing.
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I agree that most posts are uninteresting, which is why I've avoided making them. I'm not sure what people would find interesting.
I'm glad you shared your definition.
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