Re: I agree with you, 100 percent!!starrynytes4meJuly 24 2007, 17:08:53 UTC
I can't accept the designation of being an example of recovery. I'm not in oa and I left oa, although I really think it is of great value. I believe that obesity is comprised of many components. One of those is emotional, one is medical/genetic/chemical, and the other is behavioral. We have a long way to go to figure out which portion is contributing the problem most in which people.
After months of full HOW (weigh, measure) abstinence, I flattened out and failed to lose weight despite adhering to all suggestions by my sponsor. For me, it is beyond emotional and behavioral. I also have other health problems that contribute to my need to keep my weight under control. 3 years medically managed weight loss and 117lbs weight lost was not enough to get me to a healthy weight. Trainers, medication, OA, therapy, I've really tried it all.
For me, the effective combination was lap RNY surgery plus extensive therapy with someone specalizing in eating disorders. It is only effective for now, and I have a HUGE responsibility in my efforts to keep weight off. I know people in OA are very anti-surgery, but it does not take or keep all of the weight off for you. It is only an effective tool to help some people get started.
I wanted to tell you the full truth of my results, because for me, OA was not enough. It was enough to get me to stop overeating entirely, but that was still not enough to get my weight under control. I have much respect for you and anyone who has managed to fight this difficult disease of obesity with any improvement in their health at all.
Re: I agree with you, 100 percent!!starrynytes4meJuly 25 2007, 15:58:36 UTC
Thank you! Knowing just how hard this battle is, I'm much less judgemental than I ever was before. There is no "right and wrong" way to fight this war so long as the intention is better health long term. There is only long term effective, or not. There is either living, or racing towards death.
Ultimately, I get offended when people assume all of my progress is due to surgery. I lost and kept of 50lbs for over 3 years before I ever had surgery. The average result for surgery is losing 80% of your excess weight and keeping 53% off. I've lost 98% of my excess weight and it isn't due to just going under the knife. I've seen many people get surgery and continue to eat around it and regain every pound because they haven't addressed the emotional issues and food addiction, and surgery doesn't do that at all. The only thing surgery did for me is give me a good chance of getting my health under control enough to take over from there with the exercise. I wish I could sometimes share with others that not everyone who has surgery is looking for a quick fix. Some of us are doing it because it is the best medical decision. Some of us have hormonal issues that make weight much harder to lose even on a very controlled diet and exercise plan. Numerous women with PCOS are among those in my support group and they are also working on the food addiction (which MUST be a continued effort to sustain weight loss). I am very glad that oa exists and I think I would certainly go back, but I fear I'd be entirely rebuked because I'm happy that I had surgery. Not because it solved all of my problems, but because it was the right medical decision for me.
Also, despite all of my efforts, I'm still 7lbs overweight, so does that make me a failure? I think not. It makes me "in progress" and "during" like anyone else who's been quite obese. I had a BMI of 50 and now it is 26. My goal is 24-25, which means I will have lost half of my BMI.
There are many key OA learnings I believe in that continue to help me, the first being that I can't do this without help, and that I simply won't sustain long term weight loss on my own. Sharing my story and helping others who are very ill and stuck in the pain/depression/addiction cycle is another thing that I love to do, but I only got involved because of things that I have learned through OA. I'm more thankful than I would have been otherwise. I no longer lie to myself about my eating, or that I'm making all of the "choices" when I eat what I feel like eating, so I'd say that the honesty portion also is something I continue to work on. Also, knowing it really isn't just about the food. In fact, most of it isn't at all about the food. Therapy has really helped me sort out the angry state I was living in, and how relationship issues and past damage was driving me to eat more and more. The one thing that I struggle with is humility. I still don't have that all of the way. When I forgive someone, I forgive them and then gloat about how much of a better person I am because I forgave them. I still do it for selfish reasons because it makes me feel good.
I know this is really a long long comment, but I've been wanting to ask you about extra skin. I have so much extra tummy skin that I call myself a marsupial. Do you and your other friend who have lost so much weight have similar issues? Also, does there seem to be any stigma from what you've seen if you get extra skin removed after weightloss?
Thank you very much for inspiring me so often with what you have to say. You are an amazing person and you should be beyond proud for all that you contribute. Also, thank you for being open minded and willing to consider that surgery and recovery from food addiction are not always opposing view points.
Re: I agree with you, 100 percent!!specsafetyJuly 25 2007, 16:49:54 UTC
Thank you so much for the compliments. Marsupial is a wonderful discription of what I have and especially what my 200 lb formerly 700 lb friend had. He had the skin removal surgery because there was so much that it actually was getting (please excuse the explicit imagary) caught in his groin when he was walking. I have chose not to get the surgery, only because of my perception of the pain that would be associated with it. My friend said it was extremely painful. A far as any stigma in getting the surgery, I am not aware of any. The only story I have heard, which may or may not be common knowledge, is that if the weight does come back on, the skin may open along the suture lines, since that is not the weakest area of your skin. I know a person, who knew 2 people who died because they lost all the weight, had the skin removed, left 12 step, to then put all the weight on again and died of the infections that occurred when the skin opened up. I am sorry to share this story with you, but, it is something I am aware of, albeit, secondhand. Again, I admire your strength and perserverance in fighting this deadly disease. For all the naysayers....well....screw'em!! There are a lot of Monday-night quarterbacks out there. Many people who are critical or worst, jealous, people who are in recovery. My friend defines abstinence as "At or approaching a goal weight plus working the steps" You certainly fit the definition. Please do not stop going to meetings in the off-chance you meet one of these critics. Remember, they are sick...as I am. Their lashing out is an insight to how their program is working for them. If going to meetings helps you....by all means GO!!! I like to go to meetings that have strong recovery. They are out there. There are, of course, "Fat Serenity" meetings. These are toxic, and I will not waste my time with them. Hope that helps....And....btw....."You GO GIRL!!!!"
After months of full HOW (weigh, measure) abstinence, I flattened out and failed to lose weight despite adhering to all suggestions by my sponsor. For me, it is beyond emotional and behavioral. I also have other health problems that contribute to my need to keep my weight under control. 3 years medically managed weight loss and 117lbs weight lost was not enough to get me to a healthy weight. Trainers, medication, OA, therapy, I've really tried it all.
For me, the effective combination was lap RNY surgery plus extensive therapy with someone specalizing in eating disorders. It is only effective for now, and I have a HUGE responsibility in my efforts to keep weight off. I know people in OA are very anti-surgery, but it does not take or keep all of the weight off for you. It is only an effective tool to help some people get started.
I wanted to tell you the full truth of my results, because for me, OA was not enough. It was enough to get me to stop overeating entirely, but that was still not enough to get my weight under control. I have much respect for you and anyone who has managed to fight this difficult disease of obesity with any improvement in their health at all.
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Ultimately, I get offended when people assume all of my progress is due to surgery. I lost and kept of 50lbs for over 3 years before I ever had surgery. The average result for surgery is losing 80% of your excess weight and keeping 53% off. I've lost 98% of my excess weight and it isn't due to just going under the knife. I've seen many people get surgery and continue to eat around it and regain every pound because they haven't addressed the emotional issues and food addiction, and surgery doesn't do that at all. The only thing surgery did for me is give me a good chance of getting my health under control enough to take over from there with the exercise. I wish I could sometimes share with others that not everyone who has surgery is looking for a quick fix. Some of us are doing it because it is the best medical decision. Some of us have hormonal issues that make weight much harder to lose even on a very controlled diet and exercise plan. Numerous women with PCOS are among those in my support group and they are also working on the food addiction (which MUST be a continued effort to sustain weight loss). I am very glad that oa exists and I think I would certainly go back, but I fear I'd be entirely rebuked because I'm happy that I had surgery. Not because it solved all of my problems, but because it was the right medical decision for me.
Also, despite all of my efforts, I'm still 7lbs overweight, so does that make me a failure? I think not. It makes me "in progress" and "during" like anyone else who's been quite obese. I had a BMI of 50 and now it is 26. My goal is 24-25, which means I will have lost half of my BMI.
There are many key OA learnings I believe in that continue to help me, the first being that I can't do this without help, and that I simply won't sustain long term weight loss on my own. Sharing my story and helping others who are very ill and stuck in the pain/depression/addiction cycle is another thing that I love to do, but I only got involved because of things that I have learned through OA. I'm more thankful than I would have been otherwise. I no longer lie to myself about my eating, or that I'm making all of the "choices" when I eat what I feel like eating, so I'd say that the honesty portion also is something I continue to work on. Also, knowing it really isn't just about the food. In fact, most of it isn't at all about the food. Therapy has really helped me sort out the angry state I was living in, and how relationship issues and past damage was driving me to eat more and more. The one thing that I struggle with is humility. I still don't have that all of the way. When I forgive someone, I forgive them and then gloat about how much of a better person I am because I forgave them. I still do it for selfish reasons because it makes me feel good.
I know this is really a long long comment, but I've been wanting to ask you about extra skin. I have so much extra tummy skin that I call myself a marsupial. Do you and your other friend who have lost so much weight have similar issues? Also, does there seem to be any stigma from what you've seen if you get extra skin removed after weightloss?
Thank you very much for inspiring me so often with what you have to say. You are an amazing person and you should be beyond proud for all that you contribute. Also, thank you for being open minded and willing to consider that surgery and recovery from food addiction are not always opposing view points.
Reply
Again, I admire your strength and perserverance in fighting this deadly disease. For all the naysayers....well....screw'em!! There are a lot of Monday-night quarterbacks out there. Many people who are critical or worst, jealous, people who are in recovery. My friend defines abstinence as "At or approaching a goal weight plus working the steps" You certainly fit the definition. Please do not stop going to meetings in the off-chance you meet one of these critics. Remember, they are sick...as I am. Their lashing out is an insight to how their program is working for them. If going to meetings helps you....by all means GO!!! I like to go to meetings that have strong recovery. They are out there. There are, of course, "Fat Serenity" meetings. These are toxic, and I will not waste my time with them. Hope that helps....And....btw....."You GO GIRL!!!!"
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