It's good to know I'm not just a rambling idiot. XD
I would love for them to develop a friendship. Even if that's all it ever becomes. I'd prefer it to them getting together too soon. I have a feeling Karofsky will reach the bottom next episode. And then hopefully face up to what he's doing before it's too late. I don't think he's violent of nature. I mean, from what we know the most violent thing he's done is pushing Kurt into lockers and ruining his costume (judging from the lack of bruises and no hints of pain, I'd say it's possibly Kurt wasn't physically hurt at all when he and Tina were cornered in that scene, just their Gaga-costumes). As far as we know he hasn't actually yet beat anyone up. They made a threat at the end of Theatricality to come back with their friends, but it never happened. Up until the death threat his actions seemed more like making a big show of what he was doing rather than an attempt to cause actual harm.
I'd be very sad if they don't follow through on this. If they don't give Karofsky a chance to redeem himself, then what was the point of the kiss in the first place? Just for the shock effect? I think (hope) they have to have a plan for him, and that's the only reason the spoilers for next episode don't completely fill me with dread (only partly). XD
It's good to know I'm not just a rambling idiot. XD
*grins* No, I swear, I read at least 4 comments of yours that made me think "Ok, I totally agree with this!". XD
I have a feeling Karofsky will reach the bottom next episode. And then hopefully face up to what he's doing before it's too late.
I've got this feeling too... I read some spoilers around that didn't seem so bad... Then again, I also read some that made my skin crowl! ;) ...Can I ask you where do you usually look for spoilers on Glee? I still haven't found a site that reports "all" of them.
And you're right. He's never been the "main" bully.. Puck and Azimio did worse. He certainly wants to play "the bad guy", but he's more scared than anything, like most bullies out there, indeed. I'm not justifying him, but I... pity him, in some way. Expecially when you notice that he seemed very hurt by Kurt's answer to his kiss. There wasn't only anger in his expression... there was pain and frustration and despair, above all. It touched me deeply. Max Adler did an awesome job in that scene. I read that moment as a "I want so much to hate you, Kurt, but I feel the exact opposite and this makes me hate myself even more". :(
If they don't give Karofsky a chance to redeem himself, then what was the point of the kiss in the first place?
Exactly!!! If they wanted to emphasize the element of bullism, they just needed to add to slushies and verbal abuse something more violent and scaring. The fact that they added a kiss to the equation, instead, makes me think they have some bigger project in mind. ...And the "love is just around the corner" moment? That was strange, too.
I don't usually look for spoilers, I tend to stumble upon them when looking for other things and then I can't help but read all of them. XD So yeah, I have no idea what all the spoilers are, but I think I've heard the ones relating to Karofsky at least.
Yeah, I think pity is the main feeling for me to. I think there's just a turmoil of emotions, most of them conflicting, inside of him right now. And the kiss just brought them closer to the surface. When Kurt confronted him he lost some of the control he'd been building up by pushing other people down. But I think it says something about his nature that losing control in that moment meant kissing Kurt and not punching him. That doesn't really show a violent nature, even if you could argue the kiss was an assault. And the kiss gave him even less control because his big secret is no longer his alone. Which leads to his behaviour in the next episode and especially the death threat.
He was so amazing in that scene. I still can't get over the look on his face after the kiss. He just looks so vulnerable and desperate when he goes for the second. Why have they been hiding his talent behind slushies all this time?
They better have. Why show that side of the previously one-dimensional bully if it doesn't lead to anything? That moment was just bizarre. I can't figure it out at all. Not him showing up just as Kurt says that, or the wink. Why would he do that? And why did they put the timing of that moment like that? I mean, it seems a bit early for foreshadowing if Ryan Murphy's comments (can't remember where I read them) about Kurt's boyfriend not actually being decided yet are true. But then the guy has said things in the past that never came true, so I don't know what to think. The scene with the death threat makes perfect sense to me in his downwards spiral right now, but that first scene is so baffling.
I'm rambling again. I tend to do that when it comes to my obsessions. And this is my obsession right now. XD
But I think it says something about his nature that losing control in that moment meant kissing Kurt and not punching him.
I've never thought of it in these terms, but that's totally true.
Yeah, I'm really, really wondering why they gave him only few scenes till now, too. I love the show and I can even say I liked these first episodes of season 2.. Nothing special about them, but I found them pleasant, at least. Maybe it was because I knew Kurt would have found a boyfriend in this second season and I was eager to see who he was. Before s02e06, I read a spoiler about the character of Blaine and so I started imagining how he could have met Kurt. I watched the scene of "Teenage dream" with heart-shaped eyes and thought "Ok, this is sweet!"... And then... THEN they gave me the Kurt/Dave's kiss. I don't know about you, but I certainly wasn't expecting it and, even if I had, I would have never guessed the actors would have played it that well. I almost felt from the chair and suddendly I realized that THAT was my end: I was sold to this new pairing. Sold without hope. So, yeah, I know what you mean when you speak about obessions. *grins*
I really don't know what to do with Ryan Murphy's comments. If I hadn't read his comment about not having decided who the boyfriend is gonna be, I would certainly say that they want the character of Dave to take this role... Simply, coincidences (the "famous" quote while Dave is passing by) don't exist in TV-shows, right? ...but authors can be cruel, indeed, so there's a chance they're playing with fans and studying their reactions... And I hate thisssss!
To be honest, the only thing that made me come back for s2, was the fact that I love Kurt and Burt's relationship, and usually at least once an episode there's a performance that makes me smile. I think I had the same reaction as you to "Teenage Dream". I truly thought that would be the standout moment of the episode at that point. And then... well, I think you get it. XD I did not even remotely see it coming. Funnily enough while watching the scene I reflected on the irony of them using that profile shot that you usually see on tv/movies when two people are about to kiss, when it seemed like the bully was about to punch Kurt any moment. And then a kiss actually happens. Did not see it coming at all. XD Max Adler's acting in that scene had he hooked immediately.
I have a suspicion they might be nervous about the negative attention the scene has gotten, I don't think they expected it to be called sexual assault by anyone. I'm hoping what we see in the next episodes might make some people change their minds about Karofsky, cause otherwise they might not want to go there. If they ever intended to. Or maybe they all along decided on two possible boyfriends, because ship-wars raises interest in the show.
Kurt and Burt's relationship is one of the best thing of the series. There's so much love there, that I often find myself crying when I see them! ...As for the songs, they're amazing. Ok, I like some more than others but they all certainly have incredible voices.
I'm a bit biased towards "slash"... but it seems I don't have any ability to recogize a pairing when it COULD really happen. @___@ I haven't had the chance to be part of the "negative" attention the scene has gotten. I live in Italy and GLEE isn't such a famous show, here, so TV or magazines don't talk much about it. However, I can't really see the "sexual assault" there. Ok, the kiss was certainly unwanted and it WAS an angry kiss... but it was also the spur of the moment, an uncontrolled action that wasn't planned with the intent of hurting someone. And as soon as Kurt refused to go on with it, Dave stopped and ran away. I'm not saying it won't have any consequences on Kurt's "mind" (because it certainly shocked him), but "sexual assault" doesn't really seem the right expression to define this situation. However... yeah, I hope they'll be able to convey Dave's motivations better, in the next episode. We want to know more! And... where can I sign for the ship-war? ;)
I line in Norway, so it's not talked about here either. Only one I know who even watches the new episodes like me is my sister, and I don't think she has even considered it being sexual assault. But I have seen enough stuff online. It's mostly fandom getting worked up about it I think. But with so many ways of contacting the cast and writers it wouldn't surprise me if they've caught on. I had a discussion with someone about the issue (as a more general view, not about the kiss itself as she hadn't seen it), and she pointed out that whether or not something is sexual assault is decided by the victim's experience of it. I don't think Kurt thinks of it that way. Obviously he's upset over his first kiss being stolen, and Karofsky's behaviour afterwards hasn't done much to help. But when Kurt has spoken to him he has been trying to be understanding, I think Kurt understands that Karofsky wasn't trying or planning to force him into anything, he just lost control. I don't know, I do my best to stay far away from them. :p
Whoa, you guys had quite the discussion (she says, having been mostly absent from the internet for two days)! You should totally turn it into like, a collaborative meta post. :D Love all your thoughts.
I would love for them to develop a friendship. Even if that's all it ever becomes. I'd prefer it to them getting together too soon.
I have a feeling Karofsky will reach the bottom next episode. And then hopefully face up to what he's doing before it's too late. I don't think he's violent of nature. I mean, from what we know the most violent thing he's done is pushing Kurt into lockers and ruining his costume (judging from the lack of bruises and no hints of pain, I'd say it's possibly Kurt wasn't physically hurt at all when he and Tina were cornered in that scene, just their Gaga-costumes). As far as we know he hasn't actually yet beat anyone up. They made a threat at the end of Theatricality to come back with their friends, but it never happened. Up until the death threat his actions seemed more like making a big show of what he was doing rather than an attempt to cause actual harm.
I'd be very sad if they don't follow through on this. If they don't give Karofsky a chance to redeem himself, then what was the point of the kiss in the first place? Just for the shock effect? I think (hope) they have to have a plan for him, and that's the only reason the spoilers for next episode don't completely fill me with dread (only partly). XD
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*grins* No, I swear, I read at least 4 comments of yours that made me think "Ok, I totally agree with this!". XD
I have a feeling Karofsky will reach the bottom next episode. And then hopefully face up to what he's doing before it's too late.
I've got this feeling too... I read some spoilers around that didn't seem so bad... Then again, I also read some that made my skin crowl! ;) ...Can I ask you where do you usually look for spoilers on Glee? I still haven't found a site that reports "all" of them.
And you're right. He's never been the "main" bully.. Puck and Azimio did worse. He certainly wants to play "the bad guy", but he's more scared than anything, like most bullies out there, indeed. I'm not justifying him, but I... pity him, in some way. Expecially when you notice that he seemed very hurt by Kurt's answer to his kiss. There wasn't only anger in his expression... there was pain and frustration and despair, above all. It touched me deeply. Max Adler did an awesome job in that scene. I read that moment as a "I want so much to hate you, Kurt, but I feel the exact opposite and this makes me hate myself even more". :(
If they don't give Karofsky a chance to redeem himself, then what was the point of the kiss in the first place?
Exactly!!! If they wanted to emphasize the element of bullism, they just needed to add to slushies and verbal abuse something more violent and scaring. The fact that they added a kiss to the equation, instead, makes me think they have some bigger project in mind.
...And the "love is just around the corner" moment? That was strange, too.
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I don't usually look for spoilers, I tend to stumble upon them when looking for other things and then I can't help but read all of them. XD So yeah, I have no idea what all the spoilers are, but I think I've heard the ones relating to Karofsky at least.
Yeah, I think pity is the main feeling for me to. I think there's just a turmoil of emotions, most of them conflicting, inside of him right now. And the kiss just brought them closer to the surface. When Kurt confronted him he lost some of the control he'd been building up by pushing other people down. But I think it says something about his nature that losing control in that moment meant kissing Kurt and not punching him. That doesn't really show a violent nature, even if you could argue the kiss was an assault. And the kiss gave him even less control because his big secret is no longer his alone. Which leads to his behaviour in the next episode and especially the death threat.
He was so amazing in that scene. I still can't get over the look on his face after the kiss. He just looks so vulnerable and desperate when he goes for the second. Why have they been hiding his talent behind slushies all this time?
They better have. Why show that side of the previously one-dimensional bully if it doesn't lead to anything?
That moment was just bizarre. I can't figure it out at all. Not him showing up just as Kurt says that, or the wink. Why would he do that? And why did they put the timing of that moment like that? I mean, it seems a bit early for foreshadowing if Ryan Murphy's comments (can't remember where I read them) about Kurt's boyfriend not actually being decided yet are true. But then the guy has said things in the past that never came true, so I don't know what to think. The scene with the death threat makes perfect sense to me in his downwards spiral right now, but that first scene is so baffling.
I'm rambling again. I tend to do that when it comes to my obsessions. And this is my obsession right now. XD
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But I think it says something about his nature that losing control in that moment meant kissing Kurt and not punching him.
I've never thought of it in these terms, but that's totally true.
Yeah, I'm really, really wondering why they gave him only few scenes till now, too. I love the show and I can even say I liked these first episodes of season 2.. Nothing special about them, but I found them pleasant, at least. Maybe it was because I knew Kurt would have found a boyfriend in this second season and I was eager to see who he was. Before s02e06, I read a spoiler about the character of Blaine and so I started imagining how he could have met Kurt. I watched the scene of "Teenage dream" with heart-shaped eyes and thought "Ok, this is sweet!"... And then... THEN they gave me the Kurt/Dave's kiss. I don't know about you, but I certainly wasn't expecting it and, even if I had, I would have never guessed the actors would have played it that well. I almost felt from the chair and suddendly I realized that THAT was my end: I was sold to this new pairing. Sold without hope. So, yeah, I know what you mean when you speak about obessions. *grins*
I really don't know what to do with Ryan Murphy's comments. If I hadn't read his comment about not having decided who the boyfriend is gonna be, I would certainly say that they want the character of Dave to take this role... Simply, coincidences (the "famous" quote while Dave is passing by) don't exist in TV-shows, right? ...but authors can be cruel, indeed, so there's a chance they're playing with fans and studying their reactions... And I hate thisssss!
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I think I had the same reaction as you to "Teenage Dream". I truly thought that would be the standout moment of the episode at that point. And then... well, I think you get it. XD I did not even remotely see it coming. Funnily enough while watching the scene I reflected on the irony of them using that profile shot that you usually see on tv/movies when two people are about to kiss, when it seemed like the bully was about to punch Kurt any moment. And then a kiss actually happens. Did not see it coming at all. XD Max Adler's acting in that scene had he hooked immediately.
I have a suspicion they might be nervous about the negative attention the scene has gotten, I don't think they expected it to be called sexual assault by anyone. I'm hoping what we see in the next episodes might make some people change their minds about Karofsky, cause otherwise they might not want to go there. If they ever intended to. Or maybe they all along decided on two possible boyfriends, because ship-wars raises interest in the show.
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I'm a bit biased towards "slash"... but it seems I don't have any ability to recogize a pairing when it COULD really happen. @___@
I haven't had the chance to be part of the "negative" attention the scene has gotten. I live in Italy and GLEE isn't such a famous show, here, so TV or magazines don't talk much about it. However, I can't really see the "sexual assault" there. Ok, the kiss was certainly unwanted and it WAS an angry kiss... but it was also the spur of the moment, an uncontrolled action that wasn't planned with the intent of hurting someone. And as soon as Kurt refused to go on with it, Dave stopped and ran away. I'm not saying it won't have any consequences on Kurt's "mind" (because it certainly shocked him), but "sexual assault" doesn't really seem the right expression to define this situation. However... yeah, I hope they'll be able to convey Dave's motivations better, in the next episode. We want to know more!
And... where can I sign for the ship-war? ;)
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I had a discussion with someone about the issue (as a more general view, not about the kiss itself as she hadn't seen it), and she pointed out that whether or not something is sexual assault is decided by the victim's experience of it. I don't think Kurt thinks of it that way. Obviously he's upset over his first kiss being stolen, and Karofsky's behaviour afterwards hasn't done much to help. But when Kurt has spoken to him he has been trying to be understanding, I think Kurt understands that Karofsky wasn't trying or planning to force him into anything, he just lost control.
I don't know, I do my best to stay far away from them. :p
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