Oh look, another m/m discussion *sigh*

[sparkindarkness]

And lo we have had another discussion about m/m that has largely focused on people who are not gay men. And there’s a lot that’s wrong again, to say the least about how much yet again there is a complete brushing over of appropriation and exploitation issues and the dehumanising of gay men to objects that is rampant in the m/m genre.

Yet again

Comments

[baranduyn]

Years ago, twenty years ago as a matter of fact I was an operator in a phone sex room. I have a vivid imagination, a good voice, a range of creditable accents and I needed the job

[sparkindarkness]

heh I imagine acting ability was certainly first in line :)

Aye it's not people, it's not the real people - it's the fetishised portrayal, it's the fake sex toys, the fantasies, the blow up doll.

LOL I can imagine - that dream did not come true for them :)

[snakey]

Blow up dolls, yes, and also Ken dolls. I read this on Erastes' website today, and it honestly made me feel sick to my stomach. The first half reads like a little girl playing with dolls, and the last paragraph...tell me that doesn't read *exactly* like the faux-lesbian bullshit. "The only thing better than a sexy woman in lingerie, all that lace and silk...is two."

Part of the fascination is the way that one can play with the characters. Writing the “courtship” of two males, in ages when it was highly dangerous and often lethal to be gay is interesting enough, but then their interaction is so much fun to play with. It is much easier for two gay men in times past to be seen in public together, for example - so there’s no worrying about chaperones, too many dances and subsequent ruined reputations in that respect. Their body language and oral language is vastly different from how a man and woman would converse in times past, too - all grist to a writer’s mill. It’s also easy to put them into adventurous situations together, on a

[sparkindarkness]

Erastes is one author. She is not alone in her actions nor is she indicative of all authors, which is why I hold that I don't want m/m to disappear or to be exclusively the province of gay men to write (even if either of those were remotely achieveable - which they're not, either achieveable or desireable

[sparkindarkness]

I haven't read my friends list, so I will have missed it, I haven't had time to do much of anything on the net for the last few days, the last thing I remember reading is about vets and surgeons. I remember reading some True Blood fluff that may have been yesterday or maybe the day before, I'm not sure, but I've been all kinds of net absent so far this week

I have never slapped down all m/m writers as been straight, I've made points expressly addressing that point. Nor inherently appropriative, though it often can be. Nor, for that point, do I think appropriation expressly makes a work uterrly wrong or non-positive.

Anyone threatening violence is beyond the pale and beyond wrong. There is never can never and never will be a reason good enough for that. I did not see it nor know about it - but there is no way that such a threat of violenmce is acceptable or excuseable.

[snakey]

Who in this post is "using hate speech and advocating real life violence against" anyone?!!

[sparkindarkness]

I understand that in part of the m/m debate elsehwere someone has made these unconscionable threats of violence.

Aie, it reminds me why I have such a low opinion of humanity

[snakey]

She was talking about "your own people" being the people who've done this, including people commenting on this post. O_O

[sparkindarkness]

I do not know where it happened or who said it, but it happened and certainly shouldn't have. People have few limits it seems and less standards, sadly not something that wasn't known. Humanity never fails to disappoint

But now I have to go to bed, I've dragged together a 14 hour day today and I've got paper work to do before I sleep and the rest of the week looks alike

[snakey]

*sympathy*