Oh look, another m/m discussion *sigh*

[sparkindarkness]

And lo we have had another discussion about m/m that has largely focused on people who are not gay men. And there’s a lot that’s wrong again, to say the least about how much yet again there is a complete brushing over of appropriation and exploitation issues and the dehumanising of gay men to objects that is rampant in the m/m genre.

Yet again

Comments

[anonymous]

So, do you believe its possible for a someone who isn't a gay man to write M/M fiction and someone else to read it without it being objectifying, even if that's rare in reality? They only personal experience I have is with JP Barnaby's book “The Forbidden Room” She started off as a Twilight fan-fiction slash writer and I believe her audience was mostly women like me, but I know she was personally friends with a few gay men who enjoyed her work, and that tried to write for both audiences. I would like to believe that every person had a right to find whatever they want arousing as long as they do it with respect (for example thinking the idea of a bi dude is hot but understanding that they are real people who don't live to fulfill you fantasies) but I also know that writers need to be conscious of what will happen their book falls into the wrong hands, because there's no shortage of people lacking respect. Really what I'm asking is, do you think that any straight woman who enjoys reading about M/M sex is doing a bad thing, or only

[snakey]

do you believe its possible for a someone who isn't a gay man to write M/M fiction and someone else to read it without it being objectifying

...I sincerely hope it's possible for bi and queer men to do so. :P

[anonymous]

Oops, I didn't meen to erase bi or queer guys, apologies.

[sparkindarkness]

Yes I believe it is.

If the characters are treated as people rather than sex objects it is. If they are more than stereotypes. If the author recognises considers and thinks on the potential harm the work can do. If the author acknowledges actual gay men an actual community and makes sure to remember they are writing the other. If they are respectful, if they do not fetishise, if they remember the real people behind it - then most certainly yes, it can be done respectfully

But it requires care, consideration and never forgetting that it's writing the other, using a marginalised and vulnerable group and that real people are in the firing line

[gement]

Thanks for being clear about the better option here.

My gender's about 20% complicated, but I'm basically a queer woman writing about a totally different flavor of person when I write M/M. I'm very self-conscious of that, and I'm always looking for insider guidelines on what makes it acceptable for members of the group whose opinions I respect.

One of the points of backlash in these discussions is a sense that we're being told there's no okay way to do it. It's not just 'wah wah censorship,' it's a sense that we really will have to keep these stories silent to be ethical. Which is a legitimate thing to argue about, but I don't think it's actually the opinion of most of the people raising objections, and it's confusing the issue.

While it's by no means your responsibility, I really appreciate that you've given your opinion and guidance on that here.