One of the many many things about homophobia that make me rage is how readily tolerated it is - and how ready people are to excuse it, defend it and deny it.
It saddens me that I need to repeat this - but, if you think gay people are worth less than straight people, if you think we deserve less than straight people, if you think we don’t have the
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I heartily agree with you, however from conversations with straight allies, I get the impression that many of them are dancing for fear they may offend us, if they don't weigh every word with a feather and step on egg shells, and end up unintentionally saying a single thing that could possibly be construed as homophobic when it is not. Case in point: a friend of mine recently raised a point on LJ, one that I happened to agree with. She was immediately chastised in the most rude and over-the-top way by a person accusing her of being "trans-phobic", because, if you took a mental detour around several corners, one part of her statement could be construed to be such. Heaven forbid! Yes, I am against homophobia, but where do we draw the line so that we don't end up being opponents to our own allies, and keep the scales from tipping into the raging waters of blind fanaticism? I'm not referring to you, but I've seen friends silenced and discouraged from attempting any sort of exchange with a GLBT person, for fear of the backlash that happens if they inadvertently "say something wrong". To me, this is the death of any understanding and exchange, and seems as real a threat to any progress as the homophobia we're actually trying to stop.
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Look: In my mind, any good ally understands that being called out on misconceptions is a thousand times LESS difficult than living in a world where lots of people hate you. A good ally would, in the situation you mention, think: "Hmm, this person is ANGRY, perhaps there is a reason for his or her anger. Perhaps this person is expressing it online because he or she fears to express it in life and it triggered something. Hmm maybe I should shut up and THINK about this person's anger a bit." A real ally doesn't become an ally to get stickers and cookies. Anyone really committed to ending an "ism" that doesn't hold that marginalization EXPECTS to be called the fuck out on their shit A LOT.
-Leah
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I didn't, because it's not my business to repeat comments others have left elsewhere on LJ. If she wants it posted here, that's up to her. I would be overstepping a bounds if I did that.
In my mind, any good ally understands that being called out on misconceptions is a thousand times LESS difficult than living in a world where lots of people hate you.
True, but that's no reason to be hateful and rude to a person who honestly means no offense. Then you're not coming across as a good representative of the GLBT community, you're just coming across as hateful and rude. Period. People are more apt to listen to us if we maintanin some level of respect and common decency, and don't vent the same disrespect at them we complain about getting from homophobes. This encourages the exchange we're looking for. Rudeness and hatefulness where it's uncalled for does not, and it's not our right to treat other human beings that way who truly try to understand and relate. It's great to speak out, it's great to correct errors. But it's actually possible to do it in a way that makes one a good representative of the community one stands for, instead of a rude person with a chip on their shoulder, seeing "phobia" coming out of the woodwork where there really is none.
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I've always said there is a difference between ignorance and willful ignorance. And the things I've mentioned? I'd put them waaaaay on the side of willfull ignorance.
Now as to the slips and errors and missteps that any privileged person may make - because privileged DOES mean ignorant and even an ally who has made an effort to educate themselves (and that is step one of being an ally, so if they make a mistake that they could have avoided with basic 101 training, weeeelll again, benefit of the doubt is pretty thin on the ground there) will occasionally stick foot in mouth.
Now, ideally the ally will have a sufficient reputation and history that the people they have just trodden all over will give them the benefit of the doube. Sometimes that won't be the case. And, as I've said before sometimes a polite, productive conversation isn't possible
One thing I try to remember AS an ally myself to other marginalised groups is that sometimes I will screw up and be faced with a reaction I find over the top. I can feel that way because it's not my marginalisation and, as such, I am not emotionally touched by it. In those circumstances I try to remember the context - I remember that this person has probably been hurt by this many many many times before.
I once heard someone referring to the marginalised as "sensitive" but in an interesting way. When someone hits you on the arm, it makes you sore. That spot on your body is bruised and sensitive. Now if lots of people have been beating on that spot with clubs for YEARS that spot is going to be REALLY damn sensitive. So when someone comes along and pokes it, you're probably going to flare up "that freaking HURTS damn it". The poker probably thinks "damn, I only poked you..." but you can't divorce that poke from the years, decades, centuries of smacking that arm has taken.
I think one of our duties as allies to any marginalised person is to recognise that - and recognise that anger is legitimate and why trying to suppress that anger, (or "tone arguments" as they are often called) is usually very counter productive.
When confronted with that I'd strongly advise a quick "I'm sorry, I didn't know that and didn't intend it that way. I will now edit it to remove the offending segment, thank you for telling me." Now, if they keep attacking after a retraction and apology? Well, sadly that's people for you. (Though, I say again, if the item in question is something that is WILLFULLY ignorant then I don't think apology + edit will cover it. But then, an ally shouldn't be pulling that in the first place)
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Precisely my point, and I'm not talking about willful ignorance. I get where you're coming from, I agree sometimes anger is called for, I agree none of us are saints, and I know full well my temper has blown too at times. However, I think when it was uncalled-for in response to some subjective detail the other person *could not have known* beforehand, I owe them an apology, and not vice-versa. It's not fair, IMO, to make someone who simply doesn't know responsible for damage inflicted by those who really are willfully ignorant, and thereby make excuses for my own rudeness and inappropriate behavior - that's just childish. Fact is, people are being intimidated and silenced who (IMO) should not be, and that's a sad thing. And fact is, if I'm behaving like an ass, then people who would have stopped to understand me won't be willing to listen anymore, and some of them will end up hating me. But they won't hate me because I'm queer, they'll hate me because I'm being an ass.
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But it's hard for me to feel much sympathy for people who get "scared off" by one or two bad encounters or some idea they've gotten about what x group is like. Are there people who are genuinely trying but get scared? I'm sure there are, and I'm not doubting you on that. But in my experience, I've seen things like you describe used as an excuse to be prejudiced. I see that a lot in discussions about feminism, for example. Someone claims they met a woman once who called herself a feminist and did nothing but talk about how all men everywhere are evil, so therefore all feminists hate men.
So, I don't really like the idea that we're obligated to make up for the people who leave a bad impression (even if those people are lacking in sense). I think we should make a good example, certainly, but not by taking responsibility for people's biases.
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And in my experience, people who are really homophobic don't look at this the same way you or I would. For instance, I've been told that I was attacking someone merely because I wanted to be able to get legally married. So someone who really is homophobic is not necessarily going to see a difference between a vile attack and a calm argument or the fact that we exist.
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If I'm conducting myself in a good manner, then it's not really my fault if someone else isn't.
That's true. The incident I was talking about, however, was one where a straight friend was attacked in a rude, distainful and tasteless way, for a comment she made, a comment that was not meant to malign or hurt any member of the GLBT community. In fact, GLBT wasn't even the issue she addressed, the issue was trust, and I agree with the point she made. Another person chose to sniff out a bias in her statement and responded in a way that was completely inappropriate and over the top. I admit I wouldn't have stayed calm and diplomatic the way my friend did, if someone had responded to me that way, I would have verbally clobbered them, GLBT or not, because that was just uncalled for. Later, my friend (twicet - she made reference to my comment below, and I think it's apparent that she's not a homophobe) admitted to me that she was discouraged from engaging members of the GLBT community in any kind of exchange, for fear of stepping on a landmine and inadvertently saying something offensive. Now I had two choices, I could encourage her to keep trying for an exchange, and reassure her not all of us would rip her head off for not giving every sentence two hours of thought in an attempt to edit out every word that might possibly cause an offense. Or I could tell her she's clueless, has no idea, is wrong by default because she's straight, the attack was justified because the person's toes had been stepped on before and it's okay to take that out on my friend, and so on. I'm starting to get the impression that, unless I want to be labled a queer homophobe, I'm supposed to have said the latter, and I think that is just wrong. So that's the incident I'm referring to, and I wish it was an isolated incident, but it isn't.
I think people can disagree with them without writing off the larger community.
Definitely agree, but what if they have no exposure to the larger community and are discouraged from seeking it out? I'm not sure I would either in their shoes, and why should they? They don't need us, after all.
For instance, I've been told that I was attacking someone merely because I wanted to be able to get legally married. So someone who really is homophobic is not necessarily going to see a difference between a vile attack and a calm argument or the fact that we exist.
I know, there are extremes like that on both sides, and the number of people opposed to us is greater, simply because the demographic is greater. But I see us in danger of slipping into the same extreme, seeing a vile attack in every calm argument or neutral statement as well. I'm trying not to do that because when you get right down to it, it has no basis in reality all of the time, and so I deal with people on a case-by-case basis and don't wait for them to trip up so I can tear into them and punish them for things they haven't even done. But I'm starting to get the feeling (not from you, but in general, reading some exchanges here) that if I'm not against all of them, I'm for the homophobes, and that's just not true.
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There are arseholes everywhere - but because we have a bad experience with one, two or even a dozen areseholes doesn't mean we should then be leery of an entire movement or community on the basis of one person.
It sounds awfully... privileged to decide "they don't need me" and avoid GBLTs because someone has reacted excessively due to hurt
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I'm not saying anyone I know ever decided that, I'm just stating it as a fact, that given enough negative experiences, they won't have any pressing motivation to seek a dialogue with us. I'm talking about people who truly try to understand, mind you - I'm not advocating making nice with the homophobes and those who consciously malign us. I'm not saying they avoid us either. But they become paranoid and overly cautious, because they don't want to offend, and this undermines any possibility of a real exchange and understanding.
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Part of being an ally is learning, growing and understanding. Part of that is listening - and, sadly, part of that is hurting people and facing the reaction to that hurt. It's not always ideal - but can we really ask the hurt people to suck it up and deal?
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Part of being an ally is learning, growing and understanding.
Right. That's part of being a human, gay, straight, white, black and purple with yellow dots. I try to do that too, and not put blinders on and automatically assume every straight person is a priviledged idiot I have license to abuse like I've seen some people in the gay community do. And IMO, people don't like to be preached at, patronized or told how ignorant they are, that cuts off the possibility of learning, growing and understanding from the onset because it puts them on the defensive. It's human.
It's not always ideal - but can we really ask the hurt people to suck it up and deal?
Being abused doesn't give me license to abuse others, that sounds like the serial killer getting off easier because he whinges about his bad childhood and shifts blame on that. Being a victim doesn't give me liberty to victimize others, that's just not an excuse. Again, I'm not talking about self-defense in the face of an attack, I'm talking about exchanges with friends, as I have been the entire time. I get the impression some of us are fanning the flames we claim burn us ourselves, so that we can wallow in a persecuted victim mentality, abuse others and spread the hatred and dissent. Your friend Leah here is a prime example of that, it's irrational behavior and accomplishes nothing aside from causing strife where there normally wouldn't be any. I'm embarrassed for people like that.
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I think it is importsant to call friends out though - because all too often people give friends a pass on problematic behaviour. But even then exhcnages wiuth friends are very different because of past relationship
Every straight person is privileged, and they are likely to be ignorant simply because that is what privilege means. And while we don't have a right to abuse, I think we do have a right to react angrily when they throw that privilege at us. I don't think a duty to be calm and educational all the time is possible - or even desireable both in terms of mental stress and in terms of necessary passion
People make their own paths and set their own way for their own reasons and by their own methods - we have 101 pathways and hopefully all add something. No-one has the need, or even right to be embarrased by someone else methinks.
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If it has to do with something affecting me personally, it's an instinctive response, even if I try to have sufficient self-control not to act on it, and it's something that also makes me angry because while passion is good, fanaticism never is. How and why is that different than having an instinctive response to something subjectively hurtful someone else has said, and why do I have the right and reason for one and not the other?
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