... in which it's all a load of Boffle

[soupytwist]

So, my life right now basically consists of snow and work, which is boring, especially as I am, uh, not doing much of the working. I have, however, watched the first season of A Bit of Fry and Laurie, and most of the first season of Scrubs. This means that I am going to geek.

Comments

[mooetta]

Have you got the Boffle episode with the Red Hat of Pat Ferrick? Apart from being hilarious, it's set in Amersham, where I used to live.

I've thought of another reason why shipping tends to get up my nose: I am a great believer in the principle "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." So when people ship characters who are actual or potential friends and don't unambiguously fancy each other, I can't help feeling that they're trying to diss platonic love. Especially in Harry Potter, where platonic love has saved Harry's lofe repeatedly and romance has hardly done anything meaningful.

[soupytwist]

I think they mention Amersham quite a few times, actually. :D

And hmm... while I do tend to get rather irritated at "any two people just cause they're hot" shipping, I don't see it as an attempt to diss platonic love. More examples of different kinds of non-romantic love would be nice, but I don't think it denegrates what's already there to speculate that maybe there's also some romantic and sexual aspects to it. I also think we disagree about "unambiguously fancy each other"; my guess is that for you that means some kind of declaration in some way, whereas I'd say that doesn't let you see subtext which is quite often actually intentional, even if not necessarily leading to a Big Relationship OMG. I might have to go on about this at greater length in a proper post soon, actually...

[mooetta]

Hmmm...I'm not quite so unsubtle that I necessarily require an actual declaration, but I tend to be very picky about how to tell if people fancy each other. For instance, with Ron/Hermione, I don't think the bickering is necessarily a sign of Lurve, since they've bickered ever since they became friends. Likewise Hermione's empty seat strengthening Ron's resolve in COS - how do we know Ron wouldn't do the same if Harry's seat was empty? The real sign of Ron's feelings is the fact that he's jealous of Viktor even though he isn't ruining Ron's dynamic with Hermione, and is still jealous even after Hermione smashes all his platonic explanations for the feeling.

[mooetta]

BTW, I know I might come across as trying to stifle the quest for subtext and ruining the fun. Now I think that's because (correct me if I'm horribly wrong) subtext tends to be about attaching the same interpretation to particular actions with little regard for the characterisation and context. I find that kinda lazy.

[soupytwist]

Ah, now, I would definitely say that the bantering has potential... it's not the ultimate proof that they must like each other, obviously, but it's part of a pattern: they fit into the historical context of "bickering lovers", and their relationship fulfills many of the criteria generally associated with that. The jealousy is one of the few explicitly R/H stuff, but the rest of it fits, and even without the jealousy it would be likely. That's the sort of thing I'm talking about; relationships which might not show big jealousy moments explicitly, but where such definitely romantic aspects could be added and the whole would still make sense (hopefully, more sense). That's subtext. Interpreting stuff without referencing character and their overall plot development/roles isn't subtext, it's just people having fun because they think it's hot or whatever.

Um, does that make sense?