Esssssssssssssssay
SO IN LIGHT OF NOT DOING WORK AT WORK ON A FRIDAY. Let's have an essay.
Mukuro owes me like a million essays. Bother her. IN THE MEAN TIME I've been wanting to write about this because while I realize NO ONE BUT ME AND HER follow Luke and Mukuro's interactions, the gradual shift their relationship is really interesting to me.
SO, I dub this essay; Mukuro and Luke: A History or Why Luke Gets To Top.
First of all, to know why I felt like writing this, you'd have to be aware of the nature of the last four threads of significance that Luke and Mukuro have had. As of the first, when Luke was in a bad mood (due to something that happened with Asch) and Mukuro tried to make him feel horrible but ended up helping him out, Luke has kind of gotten into the habit of confronting Mukuro in an intelligent manner on his issues. He does this Here and Here and Here and Here.
Now! Part of the reason I suspect that NO ONE ELSE NOTICES THIS is because on some level they are very plain and boring. Mukuro doesn't... do stuff to Luke the way he does to other characters. He doesn't fight him, rarely outright insults him or fucks with him. Luke, meanwhile, has a jesus-y sort of zen where you can tick him off or make him a bit bitchy, but most of the time he's happy and calm and... normal. Neither of them talk about their own problems, Luke never pries at Mukuro unless he feels the situation needs it (as in recent developments) and basically they spend a lot of time just talking casually and I'm sure it's boring to read.
ALSO there is a matter of the fact that due to the nature of Mukuro being Mukuro, you can't really tell by reading the threads that he's losing. It's not something he'd ever admit. Even in canon he's zen and collected about getting his ass kicked. THAT'S HOW MUKURO ROLLS. So the only reason I KNOW LUKE IS TOPPING is because the entire time we're having these threads Mukuro-mun and I make faces at each other and yell and discuss character issues and she assures me that Mukuro hates Luke (only not really) and it's actually all very hilarious.
Anyway! This is partly for me, because I think about it a lot.
Luke is... a kind of unique character to play. He never fully develops in canon. Which I like! But at the end of the game he is not entirely the person he will one day become. Not because he isn't completely a jesus, but because he's very human in the way he continues to learn things, shift and work with people. Comparing Luke at the beginning of the game to how he is after Akzeriuth is not really fair, the dramatic turn of events send his personality into a complete one-eighty. But comparing Luke after Akzeriuth and through the course of the game? That is fair. In is roughly half a year his time (one year our time) he goes through a lot of things, loses all confidence in himself and finds it, learns to trust people, learns to interact with others differently. His relationship with Guy, who he tends to casually enjoy as a friend and perhaps take for granted, isn't like his relationship with Tear. Even though both Tear and Guy are supportive of him and love him, Luke acknowledges Tear a lot more because Tear sort of demands it of him, meanwhile Guy makes it almost a point to be more of a reassuring shadow. In this way, Luke is still very ignorant, since he doesn't realize any of this is happening. But he very much does learn things and change his approaches to peopled based on his experiences with them, rather than sort of setting a bar for how he will interact with everyone ever and only shifting it when absolutely necessary.
It's very human of him, very young and not completely self aware but speaks a lot of how hard he tries, and I like that.
Which is kind of how things go with Mukuro.
Initially, and for the course of four or five months, Luke never really got Mukuro. He associated Mukuro heavily with Master Van in his head, because they had the same goals. It took him until... just recently, to understand that while Master Van and Mukuro might have the same overall desire and a lot of similar life experiences, they're actually very different people. And so they talked a lot and Luke started thinking of Mukuro less as "Gokuder and Tsuna's enemy" and more as "My friend who needs help and is kind of a jackass". And Luke isn't... completely dumb. He has a certain faith in himself that he can both be friends with someone and at the same time do what he has to, if he has to. He doesn't hold back from people because they might be his enemy one day, any more than he ever tried to pull away from Master Van. It just doesn't occur to him to try to make things easier but avoiding the part that will make it hard. And... he does like Mukuro, he really does. He's honestly grateful for Mukuro's company and opinions, for explaining things to him. And if he doesn't really LIKE Mukuro being an ass to him? He... traveled with Jade for a year, he can handle it, and seriously doesn't hold a grudge, at all.
But the thing that sometimes worries me is that Luke... isn't smart. He's not dumb either. But Luke is rarely the one doing emotional insights in ToA. He gets Tear a couple of times, helps Anise, yells at Ingobert, picks up on the fact that Asch loves Guy, and makes his own choices regarding Asch. But... that's really not a lot. Usually the team helps each other, usually the team fixes Luke. Luke can sometimes sense things but doesn't know what to do, and goes more toward offering support and help but not knowing what to say or how to approach it. He's young and earnest but also doesn't have a lot of confidence in his ability to help other people with their problems.
And for a long time, Luke didn't. He believed everything Mukuro told him, and when he figured out Mukuro was lying still couldn't understand why. It never occurred to him that Mukuro was being less than honest about his own issues, because in Luke's world, the only people who aren't honest with their own issues are... him and Asch. Because Mukuro gives every appearance of being sure and confident and Luke is not really either in his own way, he has no reason to doubt that image.
Soo... what changed? Asch, actually. The start of it was Luke getting frustrated with Asch. Asch is a liar. Asch is angry and dumb and irrational and Luke has been kind figuring this out gradually. And gradually Luke has had to accept the fact that no one else is there for Asch (well Natalia is now, but back when this was happening, no). That Asch doesn't have a Tear to knock sense into him, and that worse, Asch is deteremined to be unhappy forever. And the fact that Luke continues to get brushed by him was annoying him. Not because he wants Asch to love him, but he wants Asch to be happy and to deal with things and Luke can tell he's NOT, and finally Luke decided that, for Asch's sake, he would have enough confidence in himself to attempt to make a difference in Asch's life. Which is... a big step for Luke, since that is sort of like stepping into Tear's shoes for him, but he got fed up and honestly didn't know what else to do.
Which! Did not immediately translate into "forcing Asch to deal with his issues" = "force Mukuro too while he's at it". For one, Luke wasn't really AWARE that Mukuro has issues he lies about until recently. He's been gradually noticing the pattern of Mukuro having... holes in his logic. But Mukuro is good at changing the direction of the conversation when Luke finds them, and Luke is easy to distract. Furthermore, intentionally ignoring these sorts of thing is so far from how Luke deals with things NOW it took him forever to realize Mukuro might be doing it on purpose. Because... in a way, Luke admires Mukuro. Because Mukuro, in his head, was like Master Van. Now that he's truly and finally disassociated Mukuro from Master Van, that will probably change.
Ironically, in a way Luke is having more luck with Mukuro at this point than Asch. Why? Because Asch outright rejects Luke and walks away, and Mukuro doesn't. Mukuro, for Mukuro reasons I will let the mun discuss on her own time, never seems to really reject people. He makes them reject HIM. Which has been the problem in Luke and Mukuro's relationship all along: Mukuro is a crappy human being, but Luke's seen worse, been through worse, and loved people despite it. The latest thread I linked to up there (which is still unfinished and can't be worked on until monday) is over Mukuro killing a kid in camp 'for fun'. This is not a SMALL THING to Luke. And Luke moving into a serious and sort of caring conversation with Mukuro after that doesn't mean he's forgiven. But Luke... knows better than the throw the futile thing back in the face of someone who doesn't care, much like how he doesn't bring up Akzeriuth to Master Van in order to say "You are horrible and should feel bad about this" once it's clear that Van doesn't. He's perfectly capable of still hating that and being personally upset by it but won't get chained to it to where no positive movement can be made, if that makes sense. Mainly because Luke isn't actually capable of hating anyone. I mean. He didn't hate Van? He's not going to hate anyone. Not even if you kill people for fun, and with the recent turn of the conversation, Luke realizes it wasn't really the killing people part Mukuro enjoys.
Luke has decided he doesn't care if he's wrong about his ideas and says the wrong thing. That's mainly what held him back over dealing with other people's emotional issues: He is young and stupid and doesn't think he can offer any worthwhile advice. He'll misunderstand, be insensitive, do something wrong. But he's very comfortable with Mukuro by now, and isn't really worried about being dumb around him or accidentally offending. And he's also used to the fact that if he wants answers from Mukuro he has to work it, carefully and persistently. Thinking his way through everything the way he promised himself he would always do, and just not hesitating to ask questions when he doesn't understand, and make guesses when no one will offer him explanations.
Mukuro, meanwhile, never really gets his logic seriously picked apart. He's from a shounen manga. People state their side briefly, if at all, disagree, fight over it. It would would be different if Mukuro or Luke were the type to attack, but Mukuro doesn't attack Luke for... Mukuro reasons. Luke never attacks out of anger ever. He attacks out of dire need for something, and fighting Mukuro physically in a place where he can't stay dead is just... dumb, in Luke's mind. Meanwhile, where MOST PEOPLE would get frustrated after dealing with Mukuro logic for a while Luke... okay he DOES but he doesn't give up. Because... Luke killed the person most important to him in the world over a disagreement in beliefs, and he can do that, yeah, he believes in himself that much. But he never want to again, so if he has the chance to change someone's opinion, or find a middle ground, to make them understand (as he can't be help Master Van might have one day been able to do, if they'd had time...) he's... not going to pass it up. And Luke just isn't the type to forget that priority, ever.
So what this finally results in is Luke asking Mukuro questions, getting a variety of answers because sometimes Mukuro tells the truth and sometimes he lies, and Luke piecing it together, finally realizing that Mukuro is... ignoring things. Like Luke used to do (he actually considers this a Luke Trait, I'm not kidding.) and that sort of... immediately brings Mukuro down onto a level Luke can truly consider equal and. Mukuro's probably never goign to escape from that now.
SO THE END RESULT? Luke... tops! Eventually, sometimes. He still gets mad, can be manipulated to an extent, and the fact that he gets to top is KIND OF BAD because it makes Mukuro go take stuff out on LANCIA (cuz Lancia doesn't top him) and in a way is causing problems since Mukuro is a bitch. But then Luke doesn't realize he's doing he's honestly just, doing his best to figure out the situation. And any sense of 'topping' he gets is the periodic realization Mukuro is being honest with him.
And it's a weird relationship and I like it a lot. And everytime I'm sure Luke is really going to give up on Mukuro this time something happens... partly because Luke can't actually give up. Ever. Partly because Mukuro has a critical weakness to Luke.
So! There! That's how I ended up here, with a dumb jesus redhead who somehow tops crazy mcbastard pants despite not actually being very insightful generally. Luke will probably continue to be somewhat dumb and oblivious toward people who aren't Asch and Mukuro, because he's not focused on their problems and because he hasn't come to the conclusion that he's more emotionally competent than them. This even includes people he's clearly more emotionally competent than, like Gokudera. Because unless you are SERIOUSLY FAILING AT EVERY ASPECT OF LIFE AND HURTING OTHERS IN THE PROCESS it will basically never occur to Luke to look at your life the way he does with Asch and Mukuro.
Aaaand as for what this means with future Mukuro dealings? I have no idea I just don't even try anymore =D
AND WHILE I HAVE A GIANT ESSAY maybe I should talk on Luke re: Mukuro. Because I'm nice.
In simplest terms, Luke loves Mukuro. Not in a gay way, in a friendship and jesus way. That wasn't really meant to happen. Luke only got involved with Mukuro in attempt to help Dera. But through virtue of being Luke, Luke has hung out around Mukuro a lot, gotten honest answers from him, learned things about him, and cared about him despite a lot of lies and casual abuse. Mainly because Luke is pretty well immune to both lies and abuse and unless you're doing ACTUALLY BAD THINGS tends to only see the good and the annoying, and he can live with the annoying. And up until Mukuro killing Thomas, Mukuro hadn't killed anyone in camp as far as Luke knows. Fighting people who are fighters (Ikki and Gokudera) when those people are connected to the mafia (which Mukuro hates for reasons Luke now knows) is still BAD but... it's understandable. It's a thought process he can follow. Also Gokudera invites it, Luke's not blind. KILLING A KID TO FUCK WITH LANCIA IS VERY BAD. But at the same time it comes when Luke is making headway with Mukuro and he's not going to abandon that, otherwise in the long run more people might die, and Luke is pretty good at remembering to keep the big picture in mind.
And Luke... is a jesus, and he cares about people a lot. And Mukuro's attempts to hurt him by calling him stupid don't work, because Luke is zen with his own intelligence. Because short of outright attacking him or his friends, Mukuro actually can't do anything to Luke that Luke hasn't dealt with in spades since the start of his game.
In more recent threads, Mukuro has gotten more desperate to make Luke give up on him, and thus gotten more brutal. He told Luke he hates him, and would kill him if he would stay dead. This ended up in a run around that resulted in Mukuro indirectly admitting he liked him, but Luke... missed that, cuz Luke is dumb.
WHAT DOES LUKE THINK MUKURO FEELS if Mukuro is ALWAYS LYING? That's... hard to explain. Luke KNOWS Mukuro doesn't think Luke is worthless, and hasn't in a long time, even though Mukuro tends to act like he thinks that. Luke knows this because when his Master told him he was worthless, you could just... you could tell. Van literally never gives Luke the time of day, Luke KNOWS what it's like to have absolutely no value in someone's eyes, and Mukuro doesn't treat him like that. So he's solidly confident that Mukuro feels something for him. Not... necessarily something good! If it makes any sense he both completely believes Mukuro hates him and suspects Mukuro likes him, at the same time.
HOW THIS WORKS IS SPECIAL LUKE-O-VISION where he doesn't think about it very hard. It's sort of like Tear both loving and hating Van. Not on as personal a level, but just the idea that opinions can conflict a bit. However, Luke has... issues! So he finds it easy to believe Mukuro hates him, and believe if Mukuro likes him it's probably because Mukuro finds him entertaining. He's... okay with this, really. He thinks of Mukuro as a friend, and won't stop just because Mukuro has made it clear the sentiment isn't returned. Loving people who hate him is KIND OF LUKE'S THING ANYWAY. He's pretty cool with it by now and honestly doesn't stop to think about it much, and it rolls off him when Mukuro tries to be a bitch and make it a point to be mean.
Aaand in a way that's sort of it. Luke has a very simple and direct way of viewing things, that hilariously helps him break through Mukuro's walls. He takes tiny logic steps that his tiny brain can follow but it also keeps him from getting turned around or confused or from giving up. He sees Mukuro has a friend, this is not hindered by Mukuro's plans, because Luke doesn't look at things that way. He believes Mukuro hates him, but can deal with that, because regardless Mukuro is still a friend in need. At the end of their third thread (that I linked), Luke agreed to leave Mukuro alone, and he did that for Mukuro's sake, because Mukuro made it clear he didn't want Luke around him. That'... didn't last long due to the Czes getting killed, thing. But at the time he decided that because Luke believes he isn't being useful in helping Mukuro. Mukuro IS changing for the better, Luke can see this, he just thinks it's thanks to Tsuna and people in general, and that Luke is just frustrating him and so, as a friend, agreed to leave him alone. In the middle of the most recent thread, Luke adjusted Mukuro mentally to be his equal, instead of a superior, which will change their interactions a bit, probably. Luke will be okay with making more assumptions in the future, and being direct about things that possibly aren't his business. Overall, Luke likes Mukuro despite everything, really does care about him, probably won't ever stop, since I can't imagine anyone doing anything worse than what Master Van did and Luke still loved him after that. He's also totally unaware of the troubles he causes Mukuro, and may very well always be, because Luke is dumb and tends to not realize he has positive effects on people.
THERE THAT WAS LONG but I'm happy and think that sorts out any issues I might have been having with myself. \o/
Mukuro owes me like a million essays. Bother her. IN THE MEAN TIME I've been wanting to write about this because while I realize NO ONE BUT ME AND HER follow Luke and Mukuro's interactions, the gradual shift their relationship is really interesting to me.
SO, I dub this essay; Mukuro and Luke: A History or Why Luke Gets To Top.
First of all, to know why I felt like writing this, you'd have to be aware of the nature of the last four threads of significance that Luke and Mukuro have had. As of the first, when Luke was in a bad mood (due to something that happened with Asch) and Mukuro tried to make him feel horrible but ended up helping him out, Luke has kind of gotten into the habit of confronting Mukuro in an intelligent manner on his issues. He does this Here and Here and Here and Here.
Now! Part of the reason I suspect that NO ONE ELSE NOTICES THIS is because on some level they are very plain and boring. Mukuro doesn't... do stuff to Luke the way he does to other characters. He doesn't fight him, rarely outright insults him or fucks with him. Luke, meanwhile, has a jesus-y sort of zen where you can tick him off or make him a bit bitchy, but most of the time he's happy and calm and... normal. Neither of them talk about their own problems, Luke never pries at Mukuro unless he feels the situation needs it (as in recent developments) and basically they spend a lot of time just talking casually and I'm sure it's boring to read.
ALSO there is a matter of the fact that due to the nature of Mukuro being Mukuro, you can't really tell by reading the threads that he's losing. It's not something he'd ever admit. Even in canon he's zen and collected about getting his ass kicked. THAT'S HOW MUKURO ROLLS. So the only reason I KNOW LUKE IS TOPPING is because the entire time we're having these threads Mukuro-mun and I make faces at each other and yell and discuss character issues and she assures me that Mukuro hates Luke (only not really) and it's actually all very hilarious.
Anyway! This is partly for me, because I think about it a lot.
Luke is... a kind of unique character to play. He never fully develops in canon. Which I like! But at the end of the game he is not entirely the person he will one day become. Not because he isn't completely a jesus, but because he's very human in the way he continues to learn things, shift and work with people. Comparing Luke at the beginning of the game to how he is after Akzeriuth is not really fair, the dramatic turn of events send his personality into a complete one-eighty. But comparing Luke after Akzeriuth and through the course of the game? That is fair. In is roughly half a year his time (one year our time) he goes through a lot of things, loses all confidence in himself and finds it, learns to trust people, learns to interact with others differently. His relationship with Guy, who he tends to casually enjoy as a friend and perhaps take for granted, isn't like his relationship with Tear. Even though both Tear and Guy are supportive of him and love him, Luke acknowledges Tear a lot more because Tear sort of demands it of him, meanwhile Guy makes it almost a point to be more of a reassuring shadow. In this way, Luke is still very ignorant, since he doesn't realize any of this is happening. But he very much does learn things and change his approaches to peopled based on his experiences with them, rather than sort of setting a bar for how he will interact with everyone ever and only shifting it when absolutely necessary.
It's very human of him, very young and not completely self aware but speaks a lot of how hard he tries, and I like that.
Which is kind of how things go with Mukuro.
Initially, and for the course of four or five months, Luke never really got Mukuro. He associated Mukuro heavily with Master Van in his head, because they had the same goals. It took him until... just recently, to understand that while Master Van and Mukuro might have the same overall desire and a lot of similar life experiences, they're actually very different people. And so they talked a lot and Luke started thinking of Mukuro less as "Gokuder and Tsuna's enemy" and more as "My friend who needs help and is kind of a jackass". And Luke isn't... completely dumb. He has a certain faith in himself that he can both be friends with someone and at the same time do what he has to, if he has to. He doesn't hold back from people because they might be his enemy one day, any more than he ever tried to pull away from Master Van. It just doesn't occur to him to try to make things easier but avoiding the part that will make it hard. And... he does like Mukuro, he really does. He's honestly grateful for Mukuro's company and opinions, for explaining things to him. And if he doesn't really LIKE Mukuro being an ass to him? He... traveled with Jade for a year, he can handle it, and seriously doesn't hold a grudge, at all.
But the thing that sometimes worries me is that Luke... isn't smart. He's not dumb either. But Luke is rarely the one doing emotional insights in ToA. He gets Tear a couple of times, helps Anise, yells at Ingobert, picks up on the fact that Asch loves Guy, and makes his own choices regarding Asch. But... that's really not a lot. Usually the team helps each other, usually the team fixes Luke. Luke can sometimes sense things but doesn't know what to do, and goes more toward offering support and help but not knowing what to say or how to approach it. He's young and earnest but also doesn't have a lot of confidence in his ability to help other people with their problems.
And for a long time, Luke didn't. He believed everything Mukuro told him, and when he figured out Mukuro was lying still couldn't understand why. It never occurred to him that Mukuro was being less than honest about his own issues, because in Luke's world, the only people who aren't honest with their own issues are... him and Asch. Because Mukuro gives every appearance of being sure and confident and Luke is not really either in his own way, he has no reason to doubt that image.
Soo... what changed? Asch, actually. The start of it was Luke getting frustrated with Asch. Asch is a liar. Asch is angry and dumb and irrational and Luke has been kind figuring this out gradually. And gradually Luke has had to accept the fact that no one else is there for Asch (well Natalia is now, but back when this was happening, no). That Asch doesn't have a Tear to knock sense into him, and that worse, Asch is deteremined to be unhappy forever. And the fact that Luke continues to get brushed by him was annoying him. Not because he wants Asch to love him, but he wants Asch to be happy and to deal with things and Luke can tell he's NOT, and finally Luke decided that, for Asch's sake, he would have enough confidence in himself to attempt to make a difference in Asch's life. Which is... a big step for Luke, since that is sort of like stepping into Tear's shoes for him, but he got fed up and honestly didn't know what else to do.
Which! Did not immediately translate into "forcing Asch to deal with his issues" = "force Mukuro too while he's at it". For one, Luke wasn't really AWARE that Mukuro has issues he lies about until recently. He's been gradually noticing the pattern of Mukuro having... holes in his logic. But Mukuro is good at changing the direction of the conversation when Luke finds them, and Luke is easy to distract. Furthermore, intentionally ignoring these sorts of thing is so far from how Luke deals with things NOW it took him forever to realize Mukuro might be doing it on purpose. Because... in a way, Luke admires Mukuro. Because Mukuro, in his head, was like Master Van. Now that he's truly and finally disassociated Mukuro from Master Van, that will probably change.
Ironically, in a way Luke is having more luck with Mukuro at this point than Asch. Why? Because Asch outright rejects Luke and walks away, and Mukuro doesn't. Mukuro, for Mukuro reasons I will let the mun discuss on her own time, never seems to really reject people. He makes them reject HIM. Which has been the problem in Luke and Mukuro's relationship all along: Mukuro is a crappy human being, but Luke's seen worse, been through worse, and loved people despite it. The latest thread I linked to up there (which is still unfinished and can't be worked on until monday) is over Mukuro killing a kid in camp 'for fun'. This is not a SMALL THING to Luke. And Luke moving into a serious and sort of caring conversation with Mukuro after that doesn't mean he's forgiven. But Luke... knows better than the throw the futile thing back in the face of someone who doesn't care, much like how he doesn't bring up Akzeriuth to Master Van in order to say "You are horrible and should feel bad about this" once it's clear that Van doesn't. He's perfectly capable of still hating that and being personally upset by it but won't get chained to it to where no positive movement can be made, if that makes sense. Mainly because Luke isn't actually capable of hating anyone. I mean. He didn't hate Van? He's not going to hate anyone. Not even if you kill people for fun, and with the recent turn of the conversation, Luke realizes it wasn't really the killing people part Mukuro enjoys.
Luke has decided he doesn't care if he's wrong about his ideas and says the wrong thing. That's mainly what held him back over dealing with other people's emotional issues: He is young and stupid and doesn't think he can offer any worthwhile advice. He'll misunderstand, be insensitive, do something wrong. But he's very comfortable with Mukuro by now, and isn't really worried about being dumb around him or accidentally offending. And he's also used to the fact that if he wants answers from Mukuro he has to work it, carefully and persistently. Thinking his way through everything the way he promised himself he would always do, and just not hesitating to ask questions when he doesn't understand, and make guesses when no one will offer him explanations.
Mukuro, meanwhile, never really gets his logic seriously picked apart. He's from a shounen manga. People state their side briefly, if at all, disagree, fight over it. It would would be different if Mukuro or Luke were the type to attack, but Mukuro doesn't attack Luke for... Mukuro reasons. Luke never attacks out of anger ever. He attacks out of dire need for something, and fighting Mukuro physically in a place where he can't stay dead is just... dumb, in Luke's mind. Meanwhile, where MOST PEOPLE would get frustrated after dealing with Mukuro logic for a while Luke... okay he DOES but he doesn't give up. Because... Luke killed the person most important to him in the world over a disagreement in beliefs, and he can do that, yeah, he believes in himself that much. But he never want to again, so if he has the chance to change someone's opinion, or find a middle ground, to make them understand (as he can't be help Master Van might have one day been able to do, if they'd had time...) he's... not going to pass it up. And Luke just isn't the type to forget that priority, ever.
So what this finally results in is Luke asking Mukuro questions, getting a variety of answers because sometimes Mukuro tells the truth and sometimes he lies, and Luke piecing it together, finally realizing that Mukuro is... ignoring things. Like Luke used to do (he actually considers this a Luke Trait, I'm not kidding.) and that sort of... immediately brings Mukuro down onto a level Luke can truly consider equal and. Mukuro's probably never goign to escape from that now.
SO THE END RESULT? Luke... tops! Eventually, sometimes. He still gets mad, can be manipulated to an extent, and the fact that he gets to top is KIND OF BAD because it makes Mukuro go take stuff out on LANCIA (cuz Lancia doesn't top him) and in a way is causing problems since Mukuro is a bitch. But then Luke doesn't realize he's doing he's honestly just, doing his best to figure out the situation. And any sense of 'topping' he gets is the periodic realization Mukuro is being honest with him.
And it's a weird relationship and I like it a lot. And everytime I'm sure Luke is really going to give up on Mukuro this time something happens... partly because Luke can't actually give up. Ever. Partly because Mukuro has a critical weakness to Luke.
So! There! That's how I ended up here, with a dumb jesus redhead who somehow tops crazy mcbastard pants despite not actually being very insightful generally. Luke will probably continue to be somewhat dumb and oblivious toward people who aren't Asch and Mukuro, because he's not focused on their problems and because he hasn't come to the conclusion that he's more emotionally competent than them. This even includes people he's clearly more emotionally competent than, like Gokudera. Because unless you are SERIOUSLY FAILING AT EVERY ASPECT OF LIFE AND HURTING OTHERS IN THE PROCESS it will basically never occur to Luke to look at your life the way he does with Asch and Mukuro.
Aaaand as for what this means with future Mukuro dealings? I have no idea I just don't even try anymore =D
AND WHILE I HAVE A GIANT ESSAY maybe I should talk on Luke re: Mukuro. Because I'm nice.
In simplest terms, Luke loves Mukuro. Not in a gay way, in a friendship and jesus way. That wasn't really meant to happen. Luke only got involved with Mukuro in attempt to help Dera. But through virtue of being Luke, Luke has hung out around Mukuro a lot, gotten honest answers from him, learned things about him, and cared about him despite a lot of lies and casual abuse. Mainly because Luke is pretty well immune to both lies and abuse and unless you're doing ACTUALLY BAD THINGS tends to only see the good and the annoying, and he can live with the annoying. And up until Mukuro killing Thomas, Mukuro hadn't killed anyone in camp as far as Luke knows. Fighting people who are fighters (Ikki and Gokudera) when those people are connected to the mafia (which Mukuro hates for reasons Luke now knows) is still BAD but... it's understandable. It's a thought process he can follow. Also Gokudera invites it, Luke's not blind. KILLING A KID TO FUCK WITH LANCIA IS VERY BAD. But at the same time it comes when Luke is making headway with Mukuro and he's not going to abandon that, otherwise in the long run more people might die, and Luke is pretty good at remembering to keep the big picture in mind.
And Luke... is a jesus, and he cares about people a lot. And Mukuro's attempts to hurt him by calling him stupid don't work, because Luke is zen with his own intelligence. Because short of outright attacking him or his friends, Mukuro actually can't do anything to Luke that Luke hasn't dealt with in spades since the start of his game.
In more recent threads, Mukuro has gotten more desperate to make Luke give up on him, and thus gotten more brutal. He told Luke he hates him, and would kill him if he would stay dead. This ended up in a run around that resulted in Mukuro indirectly admitting he liked him, but Luke... missed that, cuz Luke is dumb.
WHAT DOES LUKE THINK MUKURO FEELS if Mukuro is ALWAYS LYING? That's... hard to explain. Luke KNOWS Mukuro doesn't think Luke is worthless, and hasn't in a long time, even though Mukuro tends to act like he thinks that. Luke knows this because when his Master told him he was worthless, you could just... you could tell. Van literally never gives Luke the time of day, Luke KNOWS what it's like to have absolutely no value in someone's eyes, and Mukuro doesn't treat him like that. So he's solidly confident that Mukuro feels something for him. Not... necessarily something good! If it makes any sense he both completely believes Mukuro hates him and suspects Mukuro likes him, at the same time.
HOW THIS WORKS IS SPECIAL LUKE-O-VISION where he doesn't think about it very hard. It's sort of like Tear both loving and hating Van. Not on as personal a level, but just the idea that opinions can conflict a bit. However, Luke has... issues! So he finds it easy to believe Mukuro hates him, and believe if Mukuro likes him it's probably because Mukuro finds him entertaining. He's... okay with this, really. He thinks of Mukuro as a friend, and won't stop just because Mukuro has made it clear the sentiment isn't returned. Loving people who hate him is KIND OF LUKE'S THING ANYWAY. He's pretty cool with it by now and honestly doesn't stop to think about it much, and it rolls off him when Mukuro tries to be a bitch and make it a point to be mean.
Aaand in a way that's sort of it. Luke has a very simple and direct way of viewing things, that hilariously helps him break through Mukuro's walls. He takes tiny logic steps that his tiny brain can follow but it also keeps him from getting turned around or confused or from giving up. He sees Mukuro has a friend, this is not hindered by Mukuro's plans, because Luke doesn't look at things that way. He believes Mukuro hates him, but can deal with that, because regardless Mukuro is still a friend in need. At the end of their third thread (that I linked), Luke agreed to leave Mukuro alone, and he did that for Mukuro's sake, because Mukuro made it clear he didn't want Luke around him. That'... didn't last long due to the Czes getting killed, thing. But at the time he decided that because Luke believes he isn't being useful in helping Mukuro. Mukuro IS changing for the better, Luke can see this, he just thinks it's thanks to Tsuna and people in general, and that Luke is just frustrating him and so, as a friend, agreed to leave him alone. In the middle of the most recent thread, Luke adjusted Mukuro mentally to be his equal, instead of a superior, which will change their interactions a bit, probably. Luke will be okay with making more assumptions in the future, and being direct about things that possibly aren't his business. Overall, Luke likes Mukuro despite everything, really does care about him, probably won't ever stop, since I can't imagine anyone doing anything worse than what Master Van did and Luke still loved him after that. He's also totally unaware of the troubles he causes Mukuro, and may very well always be, because Luke is dumb and tends to not realize he has positive effects on people.
THERE THAT WAS LONG but I'm happy and think that sorts out any issues I might have been having with myself. \o/