unbe-fucking-lieveable

[sophia_helix]

As the subject header states... unbe-fucking-lieveable.

The Harry Potter fandom really IS full of plagiarists.

Witness Broom Closet, by Cadey, as compared with Gwendolyn's Crawl Space, from X-Files.

Comments

[cadey]

http://www.livejournal.com/users/ladycadey/33620.html#cutid1

I'm not Gwendolyn, but I did email her, apologizing for the unintentional plagarism and I'm taking down the story. I honestly only meant to draw inspiration from the fic, not actual lines. But hers came first, so mine goes down.

embarassed!Cadey

[sophia_helix]

To be honest, I really *liked* the story, in part because it reminded me of the older one, and it was only when a few lines struck me that I got worried. I didn't see how it could be anything but coincidental, given the sparseness of the similarities, and I'm glad you at least didn't mean to borrow actual phrases.

Sorry you're having trouble getting a hold of Gwendolyn. I would recommend e-mailing her friend Dasha (dashak@visi.com) to see if she knows what she's up to these days.

.m

[cofax7]

I'm going to sound really skeptical here.

How do you use the exact same language in multiple places in a story without doing it on purpose? Without knowing you're doing it?

I have to be looking at another story, or have read it frequently and recently, to quote it verbatim. And if the other story were that fresh in my mind, by god I'd check to make sure I wasn't duplicating anything more than the premise. AND I would disclaim in the headers that I got the idea from this other story, isn't it great and everyone should read it.

For me it's in some ways worse than failing to cite a fact in a research paper. My fiction is me. When I post it, I'm saying "I wrote this." I'm claiming the words for myself, asserting they are a product of my own imagination. If I use someone else's words, I damned well know I'm doing so.

Just... think about these things, yes? I don't know what Gwendolyn might think, but I sure as hell know what my response would have been.

[lissannej]

I am a good friend of Cadey's and I can assure you that any similarities were *not* intentional. I know when I've been writing my novel length, phrases and words have popped into my head that I've read before.

I can see the similarities, but she didn't use anything word for word, so it's not plagiarism. I'm not wanting to argue, just stepping in to defend my friend - as you have.

Peace to you all.

[cofax7]

I'm not defending Sophia: she doesn't need it. I'm not attacking your friend, because what would be the point?

But I am honestly curious why you think that if it's not word for word, or not intentional, it's not plagiarism.

Merriam Webster, Tenth Ed.:
plagiarize ... vt (1716): to steal and pass off (the ideas or words of another) as one's own : use (a created production) without crediting the source ~ vi to commit literary theft : present as new and original an idea or product derived from an existing source --

Barron's Law Dictionary, 2nd Ed. (1984):
PLAGIARISM appropriation of the literary composition of another and passing off as one's own the product of the mind and language of another.

Neither Barron nor M-W say anything about how if you change a few of the words it's not plagiarism. How many words, exactly, must be changed for it not to be plagiarism? Rephrasing something doesn't make it not plagiarism.

Nothing in the definitions cited above say anything about intent, either. You can, apparently, be an

[lissannej]

Allow me to clarify - it doesn't need to be word for word to be plagiarism, I agree. Having been on the other end where people have clearly ripped my story off, I can sympathise.

I guess what I was trying to say (and it will teach me to post when I am half asleep) is that Cadey, in no way, intended to take anything from your friend's story. She has authored a great many fic, all of which are wonderful in their own right.

I didn't say you were attacking Cadey, not at all. Your post was clear and calm. Alas, I know nothing about Goodwin, so I will take your word for that situation.

I guess we both have our own opinions about what's happened. Cadey has pulled the fic and attempted to apologise, so as far as I can see, there's nothing more to be done about it.

[dejaspirit]

I completely agree with Liss here. Having read both stories, this is NOT plagiarism. Plagiarism is substantial unattributed textual copying of another's work meaning verbatim or nearly verbatim copying of sentences and paragraphs. The limited use of identical or nearly-identical phrases which describe a similar situation does not is not considered plagiarism.

[cofax7]

You're entitled to your belief that your friend merely borrowed the concept and some imagery from another writer, and that that doesn't constitute plagiarism. Good for you for supporting your friend.

However, I take issue with this:
The limited use of identical or nearly-identical phrases which describe a similar situation does not is not considered plagiarism.

Do you have a citation for that?

Because you're not going to convince me that what makes something not plagiarism is that a writer paraphrased some stuff from the original story and only used phrases, not entire sentences. And the more extensive the borrowing, the less important is the fact that it was paraphrased.

Plagiarism

[noelleleithe]

The limited use of identical or nearly-identical phrases which describe a similar situation does not is not considered plagiarism.

First, yes, it IS considered plagiarism. If you use "identical or nearly-identical phrases which describe a similar situation," that's exactly the definition of plagiarism. One line in an entire story would be inconsequential, but multiple times, even "limited," and you're over the line.

Second, having read Sophia's comparison quotes, this is NOT a case of "limited" use. There is verbatim copying, there is nearly verbatim copying, and there is the use of the entire basic plotline of the original story. Even if Cadey had attributed the story, the extensive level of similarities between the two stories without permission from the original author would still constitute plagiarism.

Cadey said she has removed the story. This was the smart thing to do. I don't doubt that her intention was to pay homage to the original story, but I'm glad she recognized the problems with the method she chose.

Re: Plagiarism

[dejaspirit]

I have to cite the lawyerly spousal unit who has handled intellectual property cases and says that they are very difficult to prove, especially when neither author can say the original concept was theirs. I think I sited a similar story to both of these above called "The Piano Room". Nice piece of smut, that was.

In my opinion, Cadey presented a not-so original concept in a different way, even with the similar phrases. But you are entitled to your opinion, as I am to mine.

Now about that Mulder/Scully smut. (yeah, figured out I was mispelling it went I tried to Google it)

Any recs?

Mulder/Scully smut

[noelleleithe]

I can send you to Fred & Ginger's Smut Classics. It's no longer being updated, but it's a smut recs site Brandon Ray and I compiled. It's a good list to start with, at least.

There was also a recent thread at the Haven fanfic board for good smut fic. I posted some of the ones from the above site there, but there are others as well.

Enjoy!

Re: Mulder/Scully smut

[dejaspirit]

Hee. Thanks! Can you say "stumbled onto a fandom?" Yikes. But at least I have reading to do. I don't know why it never really occured to me that there would be a lot of Mulder/Scully fic out there. I was majorly pissed when the series ended the way it did, but I think I'll stop spamming this poor person's LJ now and go read...