And this officially makes me a bitch

[soophelia]

I normally don't comment on things in Downton Abbey fandom because fandom hates everything that I love, but I had to comment on someone picking Mary for the WomenLoveFest on Livejournal. Mary is universally loved in fandom (and everyone but me hates Edith, O'Brien and Daisy. I'm the only one that loves them that I could find. Seriously I cannot

Comments

[allthingsholy]

I got here through the Downton comm and your post about someone picking Mary for womenlovefest. I know I don't know you, but I do have a few things to say about your comment (and the comments about DA generally that are at the top of your journal).

Firstly, womenlovefest is a community made to celebrate female characters of all stripes and walks of life which is important in a subculture than can routinely toss over strong female characters for handsome, "bad boy" male characters. (The storm of support for Lincoln Lee as opposed to Astrid Farnesworth on "Fringe," the preemptive character-bashing of Leslie Knope in "Parks & Rec" fandom.) The purpose of the fest isn't to put down any female characters, but rather to celebrate the ways in which various characters are ALL awesome.

Secondly, Mary Crawley is by no means "universally liked." I have plenty of friends who don't like Mary; Dan Stevens himself has said in interviews that when people on the street approach him about the show, they're fairly evenly split between wanting him to end up with Mary and thinking Mary is a heinous bitch. The show itself plays upon this dichotomy by having Mrs. Hughes and Mr. Carson express their differing opinions on the character. To say she's not a polarizing female character is, I think, more evidence of not taking in a large enough swatch of the fandom than an accurate reflection on the way the character is viewed.

Thirdly, Thomas, Edith, and Daisy all have firm supporters in the fandom. I literally have never seen anyone say anything negative about Daisy. Thomas has his fangirls too. I've seen people make compelling arguments for Edith's character as well, especially in relation to her interactions with Mary. The most interesting argument I've seen is a defense of both of them, talking about the ways in which neither of them comfortably fit into the society they're expected to participate in: Mary is too forward-thinking, Edith too backward-thinking. Edith doesn't have Mary's charm and beauty and belongs a generation past, when women were cherished for their silences rather than their wit. It's hard for the both of them and I've seen plenty of people acknowledge that.

As a huge Mary fan, it's also off-putting to see you trivialize her character so intensely. "Mary's drama is whether or not Matthew loves her. Boring." I find that a huge over-simplification. Mary's "drama" is being dispossessed from a house and title by antiquated and sexist laws; Mary's "drama" is having her family constantly parade rich men in front of her that she's meant to marry; Mary's "drama" is frustration at her life and its general lack of purpose. These are all things Mary has explicitly stated on the show. If her only storyline was whether or not Matthew loved her, I'd be the first one to call bullshit. (I hope she gets more to do this season and all reference to Mary's inheritance isn't dropped.)

The reason that I'm such a huge fan of Downton Abbey is because it presents a wide array of female characters and treats them all with affection. Yes, there are disparities between their screentime. Yes, I'd like to see Edith get a storyline that doesn't have anything to do with Mary (which it certainly seems like she's going to get). There are plenty of criticisms to be made about the way the show portrays the characters from different classes and there are certainly insightful things to say about the way fandom reacts to the different romances between upstairs and downstairs characters, and not liking Mary Crawley is certainly a valid life opinion (... I guess). But what I'm saying is: there's a lot of love for all of these characters out there. (Daisy, Edith, O'Brien included. ... Well, not so much O'Brien, but I'm looking forward to an O'Brien redemption arc this season, so.) You should go find some.

[soophelia]

While it's wonderful that Womenlovefest celebrates all female characters, it would be wonderful if people actually defended the females in fandom that are hated the most (oftentimes for no reason whatsoever other than they're not "character x"). And yes I do believe that it's possible to even defend O'Brien (The interviews in the press pack for season 1 often gave more insight into some of the characters like O'Brien, Mrs Hughes and Thomas than the show did). It's more difficult to defend a female character like Edith or O'Brien than someone that a lot of people like such as Mary.

(The storm of support for Lincoln Lee as opposed to Astrid Farnesworth on "Fringe," the preemptive character-bashing of Leslie Knope in "Parks & Rec" fandom.)

I can't comment (in depth) on either show because I don't watch either one. I have seen a few animated gifs from Parks and Recs and I think it's sad that people hate Amy Pohler's character (I'm assuming she's Leslie).

I'm shocked that people would come up to Dan and tell them what they think of the characters. He's not a writer so he can't change what they don't like. (And even if he was a writer for the show, I don't think it should be changed).

I don't care whether Matthew and Mary end up together. And I certainly would NOT want Sybil or Edith to end up with Matthew. Matthew is too bland (and shallow) for either Sybil or Edith. (Matthew and Mary are Mr and Mrs Bennet in their younger years: both attracted to each other by looks, but not much else).

I wouldn't want Edith or Sybil to end up with Downton either. It's Mary's and that's fine. And I agree that yes that system was sexist and oppressive, but I think Mary definitely has an advantage in that system because she is charming and beautiful (so she is valued in that society/system) whereas Edith and Sybil have to rely on their intellects. While I agree that Mary's frustration at not being in control of her own destiny is valid, the Matthew/Mary storyline is a large part of her struggle (i.e. her desire for him vs her desire for rebelling against her parents).

Mary is too forward-thinking, Edith too backward-thinking. Edith doesn't have Mary's charm and beauty and belongs a generation past, when women were cherished for their silences rather than their wit.

Oddly enough, I view Mary as belonging to the past because she has to rely on her beauty and charms whereas Edith (as well as Sybil) took an interest in things that at that time were considered inappropriate for women to talk about. Someone once remarked that Edith and Sybil were more prepared for the changes that would be coming as opposed to Mary and I have to agree. That's not to say that Mary won't change because obviously I'm sure she will. (War will definitely change all the characters.)

Thirdly, Thomas, Edith, and Daisy all have firm supporters in the fandom. I literally have never seen anyone say anything negative about Daisy.

Where are these places? I'm being serious. It would be nice to talk about the show without people bashing other female characters.

but I'm looking forward to an O'Brien redemption arc this season,

I'm also looking forward to O'Brien being redeemed this season.

[allthingsholy]

Late to respond to this, but I came across something in defense of Thomas and thought I'd share. I do most of my Downton fandom-ing on Tumblr, so maybe my opinions are biased in favor of what I've seen there as opposed to what I've seen on LJ, but. This is a big rambly "in defense of Thomas" thing which I got from dollsome's Tumblr. Just check the tag for Downton Abbey and you'll come across plenty of Thomas fangirls. Edith's love is harder to find, but if you want the names of some Edith fans to follow, I'm sure I can find you some.

[soophelia]

Thank you so much!

It's difficult to search the tags

I do plan on watching the second series soon (I have the first 2 episodes ready to watch) and the promos pictures look interesting.