*FROTH RAGE EXPLETIVES*

[sonneillon_v]

AHJKFHJLKLKHJSLKHFKHJL! THE WAR ON CHRISTMAS, ARE YOU FUCKING SERIOUS? OH MY FUCKING GOD. ARE WE NOT OVER THIS? FUCK!

*crawls under a damn rock and pulls it in after*

Comments

[kittenmommy]

senior living centers banning elderly residents from singing Christmas carols

Uh... freedom of speech?

public schools which sought to ban students from wearing the Christmas colors of red and green

Seriously??

Otherwise, no. This Christian is not on board with what this group wants to do. And as for holiday greetings, whatever someone wishes me ("Merry Christmas", "Happy Holidays", "Happy Chanukah", etc.), I wish the same to them right back.

[sonneillon_v]

I have never heard of those incidents, but I'd bet you there's a certain amount of framing going on here, like with the infamous "Man arrested for reading Bible at DMV" story. They promoted the hell out of that, got everybody worked up, while meanwhile the rest of us were pointing out that if you read the original article, he was preaching out loud at the captive audience in the DMV line and causing disruptions, which is why he was removed, and arrested (very briefly) when he resisted being removed.

So when I see "banning students from wearing the Christmas colors red and green" I immediately give side-eye.

[kittenmommy]

Yeah, I get that. And I bet you're right, there's framing happening here.

I know you wouldn't be on board with banning people from singing Christmas songs or kids from wearing red and green.

[sonneillon_v]

Absolutely not, not if they're doing it on their own. I have no difficulties with secular christmas songs in school either. I just feel that when teachers and school officials lead students in the singing of Christian religious songs, every student who is not a Christian is excluded by default. So "Jingle Bells", Whee! "The First Noel", save it for home. Or at least pay lip service to singing the songs of other religions. There are yule songs out there with Pagan roots, Jewish Channukah songs. Make it a nice joyful mix and I'll keep my mouth shut.

[kittenmommy]

I just feel that when teachers and school officials lead students in the singing of Christian religious songs, every student who is not a Christian is excluded by default.

TBH, I felt the same way when I was a kid. I'd always wince and think, "OMG, the Jewish* kids!". And those kids never complained, which says something about our society that isn't very nice.

*When I was a kid, I didn't know it was possible to be non-Christian and not Jewish. Christian and Jewish were the only options, in my very limited experience/mind.

[sonneillon_v]

*smiles* Yeah. I admit, I love Christmas season. And due to habit, I usually call it "christmas" instead of "yule". I even love the Christian songs because they're part of my background (my favorite song besides Chesnuts Roasting is What Child Is This). So celebrating Christmas doesn't bother me as long as it doesn't happen to the exclusion of Yule, Channukah, Kwanzaa, Etc. And I've had to gently correct Jake's teachers on this a couple times, because occasionally they have people in to speak to the kids and those people send the kids home with religious material, which is always Christian. Despite the fact that there are two kids from Muslim families in his class that I know of, and of course Jake.

[kittenmommy]

So celebrating Christmas doesn't bother me as long as it doesn't happen to the exclusion of Yule, Channukah, Kwanzaa, Etc.

Yeah, I don't feel comfortable excluding other holidays. Everyone should just celebrate the way they want, and there should be every effort to be inclusive in public or semi-public spaces such as schools, hospitals, nursing homes, whatever.

And I've had to gently correct Jake's teachers on this a couple times, because occasionally they have people in to speak to the kids and those people send the kids home with religious material, which is always Christian. Despite the fact that there are two kids from Muslim families in his class that I know of, and of course Jake.

Wow. They never would have gotten away with that at my school! And that was thirty-*mumblemumble* years ago!

[sonneillon_v]

I know, right? And he goes to Head Start, so I would think they'd be even more cognizant of the separation between church and state education. *shakes head*

Also, a confession - when people acknowledge my holidays? Like this Gap commercial? I feel..... indescribable. Because I'm so used to being ignored. No lie, the first time I saw this, I almost burst into tears. Just because they said 'Solstice'. It's stupid, but that's just... people have to understand, I spend hours hunting through decorations to find things that say "Yule" or "Yuletide" instead of talking about Jesus. If I want cards for my holiday, I have to special order them off the internet, which I'm much too poor to afford. I also can't find cards for any of my friends - my ASM who's celebrating Diwali, for instance. No recognition. None.

So just a hint like that makes me feel weirdly giddy in a choked-up kind of way.

[kittenmommy]

That commercial... is amazing! We need MORE like that!

[sonneillon_v]

^_^ For Sure! I know they got a ton of hate mail for it, but if I recall correctly they were totally unapologetic. In retrospect, I should have sent mail saying "You have no idea how this commercial made me feel. Thank you so much for acknowledging that I exist."

[kittenmommy]

It's never too late. You could always say that you just saw it on YouTube!

[lotus_bright]

Did they seriously get hate mail because they had the gall to recognize holidays other than Christmas? FFS.

[sonneillon_v]

o_o Oh yeah. And a bunch of articles came out lambasting them and calling for boycotts. Meanwhile those of us who are reasonable were pointing out that it ISN'T their holiday in the first place - it's ours, and they pasted theirs over top of it, so they really have no grounds to stand on in demanding that the entire season become exclusively Christmas-focused. Made no difference, of course.