Need PhD....

[sonicdrift]

My first day edition Harry Potter stamps just arrived. Addressed to 'Miss'. Thinking it strange I'd chosen this title as i never do, I checked the confirmation email, and indeed it had me down as a 'Ms'.

This annoys me.
Mainly on principle as if they're going to ask you how you prefer to be addressed why have someone deliberately change it

Comments

[uisgebeatha]

I usually put Miss on things, and get irritated at people then using Ms for some reason. What even is Ms? Is it some politically-correct thing? Seriously, I don't actually know. :/

Actually, my mum once accidentally opened mail addressed to a 'Mrs'...and it was for me. Now *that* was weird...

[sonicdrift]

'Ms' is the female equivalent of 'Mr' that doesn't include information about a women's martial status. According to Wikipedia it's been round since 1700's and Mistress was only separated into Mrs and Miss in the 17th century.

Personally, I don't see why as I'm female I should be asked or have to advertise if I'm married or not every time I fill in a form or am formally addressed. Especially as it's outdated to assume that a 'Miss' isn't permanently attached anyway.

If there's no other information it seems sensible to have 'Ms' to use than have to guess whether a woman's married or not, if only to avoid the mail mix up like the one you described. I realised I was getting old when I companies started guessing I was a 'Mrs'!

[cartesiandaemon]

I'm still not totally fond of the word "Ms" but admit I can't think of anything I would prefer.

[simont]

that doesn't include information about a women's martial status

Yes, I can see it would be a dreadful invasion of a woman's privacy to have the most casual references to you include information about whether she's Novice Jones, Trainee Jones, Ninja Jones, Sensei Jones or Grand Master Do-Not-Mess-With Jones :-)

[alitalf]

'Ms' is the female equivalent of 'Mr' and that's fine when written. The difference is "Mr" is conventionally pronounced "mister" while "Ms" - well I'm not sure - either "emess" or something like - er - "miss" maybe?

[lnr]

Mz, how hard is that?

[alitalf]

Exactly as easy as Ms. (emzee? emzed?). As an abbreviation, something with all consonants is not a problem because there is an actual word that it is an abbreviation of, and that can be pronounced, like St. for Street. There isn't usually a self explanatory way to pronounce anything with all consonants - except by initials.

So, in print Ms. seems to make perfect sense, but in speech there isn't an actual word, that it is an abbreviation of, to say. It is at best rather clumsy.

It is a shame there wasn't something archaic that could have been revived (or perhaps there is something obscure?). Perhaps an existing word could have been / still could be re-purposed? After all, "gay" used to mean happy and cheerful, and I'm sure I still (very) occasionally see constructions like "gaily coloured". I remember "gay" before it was re-purposed at all, and the new use seems to work just fine.

When it comes to SF writers who invent names that are all consonants - I find it like a cognitive bump in the road when reading. [sigh]

[lnr]

Can you really not pronounce it? Have you not heard people say it?

Imagine saying Mizz and then say it again without the "i" sound in it. Mzz.

I'm just having trouble understanding what's so difficult about that, but not quite enough so that I'm going to make a voice post of me saying it.

[alitalf]

Have you not heard people say it? Maybe not, on consideration.

I mostly work at home, and spend most of the time sitting in front of a computer or an oscilloscope. (I've been a freelance electronics designer since 1984.) On odd occasions, a whole week can go by when I don't go outside the front door, or speak to anyone except Hibernia the Balrog, and my mother (on the 'phone). Well, occasionally I squeak at the cat, and she squeaks back. The kind of office situation where this word may be spoken is not where I often find myself.

But then, Sonicdrift seemed to be telling me that there is a vowel - so perhaps there isn't a universal agreement on how to say this even now?

[sonicdrift]

I would have though the OED's phonetic guide would count as universal agreement.
LNR's description sounds right to me, and more detailed than the one I was giving. The term has been around for quite a while.

[alitalf]

Fair point, though I have to admit I didn't check with the OED - bit did visit answers.com

[sonicdrift]

but in speech there isn't an actual word, that it is an abbreviation of
Errr, except perhaps for Mistress, which 'Mrs.' and 'Miss' are abbreviations for?

If you're going to complain that all consonant abbreviations are unpronounceable how do you say 'Mrs'?
'Ms' is pronounced 'MiZ'. If you check the OED there's a proper pronunciation guide or there's a recording on Answers.com if you still can't figure it out.

We could be archaic and go back to calling every woman "Mistress", like men are all "Mister", but everyone would start sounding like K9.

[alitalf]

Actually I wondered about "Mistress" but thought it might be considered, by some, to have unfortunate connotations - but really I think the language would be that tiny bit more musical if we did use "mistress". I'd certainly prefer it - some archaisms do sound nicer. Now, will the rest of the world go along with this, I wonder...

You're right about Mrs., though there has been a conventional pronunciation in widespread use for a long time. I've even seen missus written.

Miz - I surely must have heard it pronounced, but I don't recall. Easily said, with a vowel, anyway. Rarely if ever have I found myself in a situation where I would nave reason to say this word, though I have typed it occasionally. As a kid I used to read many words I had never heard pronounced and sometimes did not immediately tie the spoken equivalent in with the word I had read.

I don't like the sound of it nearly as much as mistress, though. It makes me think of the word miserable - while mistress sounds more - well - poetic for want of a better description.