Felony assault?

[somercet]

Montaigne was a conservative in politics… I sometimes wonder if we could reform the American government, but Montaigne would no doubt reply that we were created a lawyerly republic and should not change.

- Gore Vidal (from memory)
Dr. Helen reports a sad milestone on the Reign of Terror of the trial lawyers: two twelve year-old boys were arrested

Comments

[elviswhataguy]

Interesting story. While the authorities' course of action is, at the very least, questionable, I also suspect -- and this is not condoning the heavy-handed (excuse the pun) response -- that part of the reason for the inequity pointed out by yourself and others in the treatment of the boys as opposed to the girls, is as least partly based on the age-old attitude that 'harrassment' from girls/women is something desired by boys/men (see, for instance, the responses on various opinion sites to Bill O'Reilly's recent, ludicrous story on the rampaging 'lesbian gangs' currently taking over your country; yes, the usual 'wow - sign me up', 'Gee, I should be so lucky ...' etc). Indeed, in reference to the current story, as one poster on Dr Helen's page recounts:

My, how times have changed. In 6th grade I walked a gauntlet (very slowly, mind you) [my emphasis] where I was swatted on the hind parts by every girl in my class. Four of us (all guys) went through the line. We had the highest grades in the class for the whole year. Maybe that was different.

Again, I would point out that this doesn't excuse the reactions of the authorities, but, although a double-standard may be at work, there is possibly some degree of cultural 'reasoning' (conscious or not) behind it.

Also, amidst the totally unsurprising 'kick the feminists'/'men are doomed' comments on Dr Helen's page (in which, of course, the 'women are just so manipulative' wisdom is once again trotted out), one poster also suggests that The McMinnville school administration hasn't shown the best judgement in the past. A few years ago some girls at the other middle school in town were strip-searched by police as part of a petty theft incident in gym class.

It would seem that a mix of cultural attitudes, poor judgement, and, as you point out, trial lawyers! may all have contributed to this unfortunate set of circumstances.

I loved that tee-shirt story (genius); and yes, in terms of the case under question, I'd go with the detention (but, not the paddling -- not in liberal/lefty theory anyway ... hehe).

[somercet]

… that part of the reason for the inequity pointed out by yourself and others in the treatment of the boys as opposed to the girls, is as least partly based on the age-old attitude that 'harrassment' from girls/women is something desired by boys/men…

We all want to be sexually 'harassed' sometimes. Indeed, if we are not so 'harassed', we feel depressed and rejected. (Cf. "How Soon Is Now?", The Smiths.) As Hamlet noted, "the timing is all:" how much harassment and where? Workplace or Singles Bar? Did he/she bat their eyelashes at you?

So, set and setting are important.

We don't know exactly what happened, unfortunately. Perhaps all the detentions and paddlings I recommended were inflicted but these two failed to take the hint, and the police were finally called in to put the bite in the threat of "shape up or else." The extra bit on the theft in another McMinnville middle school seems not to support that, however.

Some of the male commenters on Dr Helen's site are whiners, yes, and some are making jokes, but I find myself reading the comments on the violent females some commenters have encountered: women who have lashed out apparently without physical provocation and who were never charged with assault.

Your theory about why the girls are not being charged is possible. Another possibility is one I stated above: these two boys were the only ones dumb enough to continue in the face of multiple threats (though felony charges are simply insane if the true crime is stupidity not bullying). Yet another is far more sinister: the girls are not charged because the DA's pitch to the jury will be women are always victims, and the DA will have an easier time selling this if no girls are in the dock to muck it up.

I have no problem with girls and boys horsing around or not, within certain limits. Some kids are so small or timid that they are effectively non-combatants. I remember my dad drilling that lesson into me, especially in regards to my younger sister who, as a girl, was a presumed non-combatant. If society thinks that old presumption is obsolete, I say great, but remember horseplay often gets out of hand and kids do get offended or hurt, and adults are there to restore order by healthy, appropriate methods (and sorry, but having been whapped by my dad and lectured by my mom, I'll take the short, painful thwack to the extended guilt trip almost anytime). Slapping felony charges on kids who are just barely out of childhood, because corporal punishment and expulsion are passé, is neither.

Oh, I don't watch or condone Bill O'Reilly so I can't comment on any lesbian gangs. Pity. (Whoops, did that make me a "sign me up" kind of guy? ;-)

[elviswhataguy]

Agreed on just about every point (is this a first?)

I find myself reading the comments on the violent females some commenters have encountered: women who have lashed out apparently without physical provocation and who were never charged with assault.

Yes, I did see those and meant to mention them. I've no doubt this was the case; some women do these sorts of abhorrent things and are never charged. Again I would tend to look at societal prejudices, attitudes and expectations -- smashing glasses in guys' faces is not something women are supposed to do, therefore, what just happened couldn't have happened -- or at least can't be dealt with 'appropriately' given the existing cultural 'norms'. Which, of course, ties in with your suggestion about the DA's pitch to the jury. Society (as it stands) thrives on stereotypes and cliches and myths, and this has often been particularly true when it comes to women -- for every poor, victimized woman (the madonna), there's the rape victim who was 'asking for it' (the whore). It's convenient and tidy and helps keep things in order.

Expulsion (again, I meant to comment before) isn't particularly popular here either. Corporal punishment hasn't been used since ... I can't even remember when it was outlawed (it was still in force when I was at school, but ... *ahem* ... that was a wee while ago). Neither one is particularly effective, I think -- expulsion is arguably just delaying the problem (basically telling the kid he or she can't be integrated, so they might as well grow up to hate everyone and feel utterly useless) and, as you say, physical punishment was often a lot easier to take than the words that still come back to haunt me with a horrible frequency: We're very disappointed in you ...

Horseplay that 'gets out of hand' should be treated with the severity each individual case deserves ('out of hand' is a wide playing field), but felony assault charges, from what we know of this case, is harsh.

Oh, and I didn't take you for an O'Reilly fan -- those people worry me. The story itself was hilarious, and he was actually forced to give a (half-assed) apology (i.e., he basically blamed 'the other guy' whose name I can't recall right now). But, yeah, I think you just proved my earlier point with the 'pity' comment ... hehe.

P.S. Thank you for your email, by the way; I haven't had time to reply yet (I only replied to this thread first, since it was there and the thoughts were fairly fresh in my mind).

[somercet]

It's spreading…