Should We Move? Part III | The Repoll
ATTENTION! We are doing a repoll!
We’ve been keeping track with the discussion post, and we apologize for not responding to any direct questions to us recently. This is because we’ve been working on this document that addresses most of the issues that had been presented as well answers to those questions (such as the timing, neutral option, etc). We thought it would be better if we could get it all in one spot so it’s not lost in the comments. In retrospect, we should have made a post like this before or at the time of the poll. We dropped the ball on that one and for that we apologize. But this post reflects our position as mods as to why we even considered moving so you as players can better understand our position. These opinions are actually shared by a lot of mods in the RP community, so we’re not alone here. As players in multiple games know, everyone is going through this.
We pretty much stayed out of the discussion because we didn’t want to show any bias. However, at this time we will directly answer and also discuss with players their concerns. Our opinions will have no underlying personal attachment, but be strictly based on what we think is best for the game overall.
We don’t know if this will change your mind or not. But if for whatever reason you do want to change your vote after reading what we have to say, there is a repoll at the end of this post (or bypass everything and go here). Yes, we’re redoing the votes with what we hope is a better format than the original.
IMPORTANT: If anything, we have a very important message addressed to the playerbase at the end of this post. In short, it’s about the recent behavior we’ve seen in the poll post.
Now for our stance on the issue and why we brought it up.
Why We Considered the Move.
Many cannot even access the site.
Quite a number of people have found Livejournal inaccessible at one point or another since release 88. Even with the custom commenting layout’s workaround, it does not help mobile users with possible crashes on their mobile device’s browser. Without the custom comments others suffer eye strain or migraines. This causes discomfort and unwillingness to use the site. These are all factors that should be taken into consideration. Although you may have become used to the new layout or have somehow been able to access the website easier as of late, there are still many users who can’t.
Some users have trouble accessing the site for long periods of time simply because of the loading time, while others may need to refresh and repost the same comment thrice before it actually goes through. This, too, interrupts gameplay and reduces motivation to tag.
Minimalism layouts as a workaround.
It’s been working for a while now but how long will they last? We may not have statistics on this fact but there are many roleplayers who do not like having custom comments on for various reasons even prior to release 88. Whether it be because threads disappear into the sidebar at some points or if it may be a aesthetic preference, even they have to deal with using layouts with custom commenting just so that they may continue playing when in reality, games should not even have a need to do this.
Other players are hindered from actually posting videos/voice messages/text posts because this would mean having to change their journal style to the same one used in the main communities or using a style that works in general.
This is not the end of the updates
As we mentioned before, there will be future layout design changes made to LJ. For non-RP uses, these changes may be just fine. However, they will actually make RPing harder to do. We linked it before, but we’ll link again to the post that has a link to all of the changes: Right here. You can view the English prototype and for a direct look at how your message inbox will look like. Again, on a personal level this might not be so bad. But for RPing, players who use their inboxes will have a big change to adjust to.
Players are just not feeling comfortable anymore.
Many players now feel uncomfortable playing on LJ for a variety of reasons. Some are RP related, some are. One is the layout design due to the aforementioned reasons discussed above. Another is about LJ itself. Many have heard about complaints about Igrick, the current head of LJ, as well as LJ’s business performance over the past year. Influx of DDoS attacks due to the prominent political use in Russia. Recent influx of automatic payment glitches that while may not have been intentional, LJ continues to deny even happening. Pushing out a new commenting design with a very short beta period and thus not fully testing all of its functionality issues.
This is only a very short list of the recent happenings, of course. But for many they were the straw the broke the camel’s back. Thus many are unwilling to continue to pay for their services or even be on the site period. As a game we want our players to feel comfortable and willing to be in the game. So while at first glance annoyance at LJ may not seem like a good factor, when you consider how a player will feel playing at a game it becomes a more valid consideration. Of course, opinions may vary.
There’s some familiarity on Dreamwidth.
One of the reasons why we as mods looked toward reasons is because most of the RP community is moving there. But the reason why the RP community chose it is not only for its service, but also because it’s very similar to LJ. It’s common knowledge that Mark and Denise worked with Livejournal prior to Dreamwidth’s formation and thus have personal knowledge about how the site works both as a business and in maintenance. This gives players some reassurance that when an admin address them, they at least know what they’re talking about. Dreamwidth itself uses Livejournal’s open source code and this link summarizes how similar they really are.
Of course, that does not mean Dreamwidth is the perfect haven. There are bound to be faults with it, too, and there will be problems down the road. But as of this moment, it is proving to be a much viable alternative to what we have right now and they aim to continue to be a stable place. Games had already started cropping up long before the move, and with so many now moving, we’re in it for the long haul. We do not know if it’s the best choice, no. But we do know that it’s the better choice than what we have right now.
Arguments for Staying.
We’re rushing.
Some believe that not only Somarium but the RP community is rushing the decision to move. Release 88 was made on Dec. 20. Within the first week, some games immediately moved and others already started their own discussion. Somarium waited to discuss the issue until Dec. 30 and started the polls on Jan. 4. The main argument here is that more time should have been given to wait and see if Livejournal will either roll back the changes or at least fix the changes for the site to be usable again. This issue also rolls with whether Dreamwidth can even withstand the sudden influx of the RP community. There should have been more time for emotions to cool, as well.
We know there won’t be a roll back and we know they are working on the maintenance issue. But for our purposes, it’s taking too long. At the very least they could have temporarily rolled back the changes so as to fix the glitches and then released the new system again with the fixed changes. As for the emotions, it’s not going to cool down until something has been done. Waiting actually festers emotions more often than not.
As we state further on about our own particular timing and we waited to see if at least accessibility would be fixed within the then upcoming weeks. It is true that we could have waited longer, but due to the momentum of the RP community tide, we actually can’t wait that long. We have players stuck in limbo because their accessibility to the site is compromised, and we know there are future changes that just won’t work for us. As a game, we don’t have the luxury of waiting -- too many people are affected by this and thus we have to react accordingly. There are times where we have to make quick decisions. This is one of them. Of course when we make these decisions, we still try to think it through. We look at it in the long run. In the short run, maybe this is fast. But in the long run, this is actually for the benefit of the community as a whole both for the present and future. We can’t speak for other games, but a lot of the mods out there are in the same position as us. We’re not thinking about ourselves personally. We’re thinking about our games and the players as a whole in those games.
Loss of paid accounts.
Many players have expressed financial concern over wasted paid time on their accounts.This is a legitimate concern and there’s no easy resolution to it. However, it would also be unfair to force players who want paid time on their journals to make payments for a service they may no longer trust. There is also the problem of different expiration dates for each individual players. Some may have six months, some have a year. If we stay for six months, then those with six months will have reaped full benefit. But then those who still have six months will still have wasted time. You also have the issue that those with paid accounts may not be able to access the site altogether and thereby are also having time wasted on those accounts.
However, there is no reason for you not to put that paid time into good use. You may still tag around Livejournal with your accounts on memes, games and the like. It may not have been your original desired purpose, but it is a resolution of some kind. Should the game move, players are still free to wrap up threads on Livejournal if they so choose. There has also been a recent plurk regarding possibility of getting a refund if you’ve made payment in December. This won’t help everyone, but it may help those who feel the most distressed about having recently renewing or buying a paid account.
DW lacks some of LJ’s former functionality.
There are several differences between DW and LJ here.
Otherwise, DW works about the same as LJ and even has some features LJ doesn’t have. A nice reference list can be found here, but just to list a few: no ads, longer usernames, rename icon keywords without them reverting to the default, multiple icon upload, imports, expandable entry cuts, ability to reply to screened comments without unscreening them, and more. There are also different packages for accounts, which can be seen here. With the paid account, you get 100 icons rather than 30 icons, thus no need to pay for an additional icon package. There have also been some discussion for additional icon packages for the future.
We’ve been here for x amount of years.
Many players have been on LJ for many years -- some from back when it was first opened. Because of this many players feel like LJ is their second home. They’ve weathered many of LJ’s changes in the past, both good and bad, and decided to stick with it regardless. Some of what’s happened is not new. They may also have non-RP purposes for their journals, like watching non-RP related communities or a group of personal LJ friends who won’t be on DW. Loyalty may play a big part in staying here and users should be allowed to do so if they so choose.
Regardless of the Outcome.
Loss of players.
Either way, we’re going to lose players. Whether it’s because of the inability to use the site or because of personal reasons. There is no ultimate win-win, so we have to try and choose what’s best for the game overall.
Other games have moved/are in the process of moving.
Players in multiple games are aware that there is some kind of movement going on in the RP Community. However, some may not realize just how much. For a reference, this thread has the most recent list of games of who have moved, who are in the process of moving, who will likely move due to the current poll results at the time it was posted, who are just now voting, and who are waiting in regard to the issue. As you can see, Somarium is on the “Will probably move” but that’s only because they’re going off by the current poll results. You can also see how we’re also listed at the bottom as one of the few remaining games to get through this.
CFUD has also been chosen by Dreamwidth themselves to be the community import test to see how much strain importing that much data will induce on their servers. Their importing began early Wednesday morning, 1/04/12. As of this post, there has been no notice of any negative feedback or severe downtime. For those who may not know, CFUD is the largest game in the RP Community, with roughly 180 players and 11 million comments on its main comm. Because of this it is considered an important aspect of the roleplaying community as a whole.
Because there are so many games moving to Dreamwidth, it is inevitable that a lot of the playerbase will be there and new games will appear more on DW than on LJ.
Other Concerns.
Stress on the DW server/importer.
As mentioned above, DW is already working on importing one of the largest RP communities on LJ to test the strain of the heavy influx on their servers. They have also repeatedly told their customers that they are prepared for the influx with additional servers at the ready and will fix any maintenance issues that may arise. But with several games having already moved with little to no problem, it seems like the site has been able to manage well.
[link]
Adjusting
Switching to a new site does mean we’d have to adjust to how it works. While Dreamwidth is similar to LJ, it has its own unique functions and differences. Fortunately there are many resources made and still being made available for people to utilize should we switch. Here are a couple:
Guide to RP-specific features on LJ vs DW
Dreamwidth resources, FAQ, open question-and-answer post
Quick links about Dreamwidth
Resource post
No “neutral” option
The main reason why there was initially no neutral option is because there would be no actual benefit regarding the decision to move. Our intentions were to poll players if it would be better for Somarium to move rather than how they personally felt by the move.
However, we have addressed this issue in the new poll. As you will see, we included 3 additional neutral based options along with the “move” and “stay” options. This way all possibilities are covered and it will provide us with a larger survey as to how players feel.
Timing
We touched a little bit about this in the above section about the community generally rushing through this, but here’s a more localized point for us. There are arguments that the timing was too soon. However, there are others saying that waiting too long would be just as detrimental. The fact of the matter is, we're one of the last few games actually discussing/polling right now. Only a very small handful have yet to vote or even discuss. You can get a very good idea of how many other games are proceeding through their own move topics here. So technically, we're actually right in the middle, if not more on the "late" side.
We also had this poll first with a move slated for further down the line because it takes time for us to move things over. We’re actually going to be overhauling and updating Somarium’s info pages because let’s face it -- they need work (Note: we’re still going to overhaul the pages anyway, so this is not contingent on the move). Because we don’t know if we’re moving yet or not, we did not do anything on DW except make the mod account (another player has made the main comm for security reasons) and we did not want to start moving things unless we knew for sure we are indeed moving. So we as mods will need time for that and players will need time to recreate journals, import/set up their accounts, adjust to the new site, and finish up threads before the game opens again in DW. We’re also considering running a sort of a “Test Drive” meme for players to use to get adjusted to the site and help those unfamiliar with it to also adjust.
That is why it is better for us to hold the poll first and then figure out a moving date down the line. Everything else hinges on this decision.
Issue regarding journal vs. comm
We tied it together to the poll to actually expedite the process. A few other games with a similar system to us did the exact same thing, so what we did is not unnatural. The switch was also brought up in the original discussion post last week. However, we can consider the current poll as a preliminary and host a new poll and discussion for the Journal vs. Community after this poll. The discussion and poll would not be separate-they will be combined because we feel like this issue is already being tossed about in the current poll post and will be discussed again here.
However, keep in mind that this is an issue only if the game decides to move. Thus this issue will be coinciding with the poll for when the game will move. We need to get these decisions made quickly-a lot of people are getting more frustrated not because of just these issues, but because of the uncertainty surrounding them. If possible, we'd like to tackle both at once, so-
Should the decision be a move, when should it be take place
Many have already expressed concern about when we'd move. As stated in our original discussion post, we had a wild ball pitch of earliest being the end of January if not February. Those are still optional, and those would be on the poll. Since at this point we would know that we are moving, the only real question is when. Also keep in mind that we will not be able to import the community until DW lifts the 100k comment restriction. Somarium’s main comm is over 300k comments. But that would not stop anyone’s ability to play as we have yet to decide how to handle importing the comm (whether to start it fresh, have a separate archive, or import it all later). Thus the moving time would basically be when people can start posting onto DW. This is just a heads up, this is not part of the poll. But our time options will be:
We know some have suggested longer, but we cannot wait longer than that. The main reason for our pitch for moving early is because we see no beneficial reason for us to hang around on LJ more than necessary. It would also be unfair for new applicants to app in when they know that we're going to Dreamwidth. We do want people to get adjusted to the new site and to move things over, so we would allow for some transfer time. That's why our options are for the beginning and the end of the months.
But that's a vote for after this poll. As with the Journals/Communities, the discussion post and the vote will be one in the same for the same reasoning. The issue is already being talked about and discussed here.
At the End of the Day.
Your vote affects the outcome of Somarium’s future and everyone should respect that vote no matter what the reason. Some may not be happy and some will be affected by the outcome. But in the end we’re all affected by it. We know not everyone can be happy -- it’s impossible to do that. But we have to try and make the best decision overall.
And now we come to our final message in regards to the recent discussions.
Final words.
As we said before, we've been watching the discussion in the previous post. While there have been a several good threads going on, there have been an alarming large number of threads that are clearly heated from both sides. The problem isn't the arguments themselves but how everyone is reacting to opposing opinions. Several feel as if they are being attacked when they are not, and thus responses come off worse than they should. This only perpetuates the frustrated and tense atmosphere that is already in place by the issue itself.
We're not saying that people should stop talking or debate with one another. We are not saying that no one’s opinion is valid. We are saying that you need to respect one another's opinions even if you strongly disagree with them. This isn't a competition, this isn't a place to try and persuade someone onto your side. You can do that elsewhere. Right now and right here, this is only a place to talk about the issue. Again, people are going to disagree because people have their own opinions and some do involve personal reasons.
That in itself is not bad.
But jumping down on each other's throats and making the other feel as if their opinion is invalidated is. Everyone is already feeling frustrated -- this is only making it worse.
Now, we're not saying everyone is doing this nor are we targeting any particular side. As said before there have been several threads where great civil discussions have occurred. But there have been more threads than we'd like that are the opposite, and it's only been worsening as time goes on. Some may not notice this at first glance because they're in the discussion. But there are quite a number of people watching from the outside, us mods included, that are shocked by some of the behavior players on both sides of the debate have shown. Yes, both sides are at fault here.
To be frank, a lot of people are now making this poll more personally than they should. The question to move or stay was intended to be for the benefit of the game as a whole. Somehow this got lost, and perhaps we should have been clearer about it. But we also thought it would have been clear. Why else would we even consider the move? Yes, some players will get hurt more than others, but that is going to happen no matter what decision we make and no matter what the topic is. We can't make everyone happy -- that is unfortunate. But we do try to do everything with everyone as a collective in mind and believe that will be beneficial to even those who are hurt in the short run.
If this sounds harsh, it is. We apologize if we offended anyone, but we can assure you that is not our intention. Our intention is to make everyone aware what is really at stake here, and the “war” between “LJ vs. DW” clouded it. Again, this isn’t about the “war.” We may be caught up in it in some way, but ultimately it’s about the game and what we need to do. Some may not agree to our post, and that’s okay. Like all of you, this is our own statement and own opinion in the matter -- we don’t expect everyone to agree or follow it. If you do feel angry or offended by our message, take a deep breath, step back, and ask yourself why. Then see if it makes any sense in regard to what is written here.
But in the end, for us at least, this whole move is about the game, present and future. It's about how the game will work now and how it will thrive in long run. We are here to play, to get along with one another, and make people feel like they are welcome in this game no matter their opinion. We are here for the people around us and the people who want to be around us.
Let’s not forget that.
This has been lost in all of the debates, and this is why we made this post. All we ask is that everyone try to keep things as civil and impersonal as possible.
REPOLLING
As mentioned, we are going to do a repoll of the votes. Some have questioned bias and neutrality, so while we don’t know how much of it will change, it would be fairer to do so. We have also removed the “Journals/Comm” question and we will save that for another time. For this poll, try not to consider it as part of your vote. That can still be debated. We have added some neutral options for players to choose from. As stated in another section, this should hopefully catch a larger spread of the players.
Instead of it being hosted on LJ, we’re actually doing this offsite to facilitate those who have issues. This will also NOT display the results. However, this may actually be for the best as people will not feel pressured by comparing their vote one way or another. When we hit about 50%~75%, we’ll update this post with what the numbers look like so far so players aren’t left with complete uncertainty.
The link to the poll can be found here and is maintained by us. We will not count any votes that are invalid, and if we see duplicate usernames with conflicting votes, we will contact the player in question to verify.
We hope this version is fairer for everyone and that this way tempers can be cooled a bit.
The deadline is still January 11, 2012 or if all players have voted before then. If we need to extend it, we can. But judging from the previous poll where 75% of the playerbase voted within the first 24 hours, we think this will be okay.
You are free to continue to place your comments in the original poll post or start anew here. You can directly ask questions and we'll answer. Just remember our one big rule throughout all of this: be respectful and be polite.
We’ve been keeping track with the discussion post, and we apologize for not responding to any direct questions to us recently. This is because we’ve been working on this document that addresses most of the issues that had been presented as well answers to those questions (such as the timing, neutral option, etc). We thought it would be better if we could get it all in one spot so it’s not lost in the comments. In retrospect, we should have made a post like this before or at the time of the poll. We dropped the ball on that one and for that we apologize. But this post reflects our position as mods as to why we even considered moving so you as players can better understand our position. These opinions are actually shared by a lot of mods in the RP community, so we’re not alone here. As players in multiple games know, everyone is going through this.
We pretty much stayed out of the discussion because we didn’t want to show any bias. However, at this time we will directly answer and also discuss with players their concerns. Our opinions will have no underlying personal attachment, but be strictly based on what we think is best for the game overall.
We don’t know if this will change your mind or not. But if for whatever reason you do want to change your vote after reading what we have to say, there is a repoll at the end of this post (or bypass everything and go here). Yes, we’re redoing the votes with what we hope is a better format than the original.
IMPORTANT: If anything, we have a very important message addressed to the playerbase at the end of this post. In short, it’s about the recent behavior we’ve seen in the poll post.
Now for our stance on the issue and why we brought it up.
Why We Considered the Move.
Many cannot even access the site.
Quite a number of people have found Livejournal inaccessible at one point or another since release 88. Even with the custom commenting layout’s workaround, it does not help mobile users with possible crashes on their mobile device’s browser. Without the custom comments others suffer eye strain or migraines. This causes discomfort and unwillingness to use the site. These are all factors that should be taken into consideration. Although you may have become used to the new layout or have somehow been able to access the website easier as of late, there are still many users who can’t.
Some users have trouble accessing the site for long periods of time simply because of the loading time, while others may need to refresh and repost the same comment thrice before it actually goes through. This, too, interrupts gameplay and reduces motivation to tag.
Minimalism layouts as a workaround.
It’s been working for a while now but how long will they last? We may not have statistics on this fact but there are many roleplayers who do not like having custom comments on for various reasons even prior to release 88. Whether it be because threads disappear into the sidebar at some points or if it may be a aesthetic preference, even they have to deal with using layouts with custom commenting just so that they may continue playing when in reality, games should not even have a need to do this.
Other players are hindered from actually posting videos/voice messages/text posts because this would mean having to change their journal style to the same one used in the main communities or using a style that works in general.
This is not the end of the updates
As we mentioned before, there will be future layout design changes made to LJ. For non-RP uses, these changes may be just fine. However, they will actually make RPing harder to do. We linked it before, but we’ll link again to the post that has a link to all of the changes: Right here. You can view the English prototype and for a direct look at how your message inbox will look like. Again, on a personal level this might not be so bad. But for RPing, players who use their inboxes will have a big change to adjust to.
Players are just not feeling comfortable anymore.
Many players now feel uncomfortable playing on LJ for a variety of reasons. Some are RP related, some are. One is the layout design due to the aforementioned reasons discussed above. Another is about LJ itself. Many have heard about complaints about Igrick, the current head of LJ, as well as LJ’s business performance over the past year. Influx of DDoS attacks due to the prominent political use in Russia. Recent influx of automatic payment glitches that while may not have been intentional, LJ continues to deny even happening. Pushing out a new commenting design with a very short beta period and thus not fully testing all of its functionality issues.
This is only a very short list of the recent happenings, of course. But for many they were the straw the broke the camel’s back. Thus many are unwilling to continue to pay for their services or even be on the site period. As a game we want our players to feel comfortable and willing to be in the game. So while at first glance annoyance at LJ may not seem like a good factor, when you consider how a player will feel playing at a game it becomes a more valid consideration. Of course, opinions may vary.
There’s some familiarity on Dreamwidth.
One of the reasons why we as mods looked toward reasons is because most of the RP community is moving there. But the reason why the RP community chose it is not only for its service, but also because it’s very similar to LJ. It’s common knowledge that Mark and Denise worked with Livejournal prior to Dreamwidth’s formation and thus have personal knowledge about how the site works both as a business and in maintenance. This gives players some reassurance that when an admin address them, they at least know what they’re talking about. Dreamwidth itself uses Livejournal’s open source code and this link summarizes how similar they really are.
Of course, that does not mean Dreamwidth is the perfect haven. There are bound to be faults with it, too, and there will be problems down the road. But as of this moment, it is proving to be a much viable alternative to what we have right now and they aim to continue to be a stable place. Games had already started cropping up long before the move, and with so many now moving, we’re in it for the long haul. We do not know if it’s the best choice, no. But we do know that it’s the better choice than what we have right now.
Arguments for Staying.
We’re rushing.
Some believe that not only Somarium but the RP community is rushing the decision to move. Release 88 was made on Dec. 20. Within the first week, some games immediately moved and others already started their own discussion. Somarium waited to discuss the issue until Dec. 30 and started the polls on Jan. 4. The main argument here is that more time should have been given to wait and see if Livejournal will either roll back the changes or at least fix the changes for the site to be usable again. This issue also rolls with whether Dreamwidth can even withstand the sudden influx of the RP community. There should have been more time for emotions to cool, as well.
We know there won’t be a roll back and we know they are working on the maintenance issue. But for our purposes, it’s taking too long. At the very least they could have temporarily rolled back the changes so as to fix the glitches and then released the new system again with the fixed changes. As for the emotions, it’s not going to cool down until something has been done. Waiting actually festers emotions more often than not.
As we state further on about our own particular timing and we waited to see if at least accessibility would be fixed within the then upcoming weeks. It is true that we could have waited longer, but due to the momentum of the RP community tide, we actually can’t wait that long. We have players stuck in limbo because their accessibility to the site is compromised, and we know there are future changes that just won’t work for us. As a game, we don’t have the luxury of waiting -- too many people are affected by this and thus we have to react accordingly. There are times where we have to make quick decisions. This is one of them. Of course when we make these decisions, we still try to think it through. We look at it in the long run. In the short run, maybe this is fast. But in the long run, this is actually for the benefit of the community as a whole both for the present and future. We can’t speak for other games, but a lot of the mods out there are in the same position as us. We’re not thinking about ourselves personally. We’re thinking about our games and the players as a whole in those games.
Loss of paid accounts.
Many players have expressed financial concern over wasted paid time on their accounts.This is a legitimate concern and there’s no easy resolution to it. However, it would also be unfair to force players who want paid time on their journals to make payments for a service they may no longer trust. There is also the problem of different expiration dates for each individual players. Some may have six months, some have a year. If we stay for six months, then those with six months will have reaped full benefit. But then those who still have six months will still have wasted time. You also have the issue that those with paid accounts may not be able to access the site altogether and thereby are also having time wasted on those accounts.
However, there is no reason for you not to put that paid time into good use. You may still tag around Livejournal with your accounts on memes, games and the like. It may not have been your original desired purpose, but it is a resolution of some kind. Should the game move, players are still free to wrap up threads on Livejournal if they so choose. There has also been a recent plurk regarding possibility of getting a refund if you’ve made payment in December. This won’t help everyone, but it may help those who feel the most distressed about having recently renewing or buying a paid account.
DW lacks some of LJ’s former functionality.
There are several differences between DW and LJ here.
- Friending. Most relevant to us is the friend feature. As mentioned in Laena’s comment, it’s a two step function involving granting access and subscribing.
- Invite Codes. Usually when a user creates an account, they have to have an invite code. But when joining a community, there is no need for an invite code. Instead, we as mods can ask DW for a promo link. We then pass that link to the player and they are taken directly to the account creation page.
- Layouts and HTML. There are fewer layout options, especially customized ones. However, with more people joining DW, especially those who like making layouts, this will probably change. As for the HTML, it’s definitely different and some codes won’t work. There is a resource list for all that is necessary (including guides) and as more people experiment, there will be more resources available to everyone.
- No Paypal. DW does not have a contract with Paypal and thus can only accept cards, check, or money orders. However, if you have a Paypal account, you can actually apply for a Master Card Debit card, which will work. (I think, I should try this myself but I’ve heard that you can). Laena will also gladly serve as a conduit for anyone who needs it, as well as any other players who might want to.
Otherwise, DW works about the same as LJ and even has some features LJ doesn’t have. A nice reference list can be found here, but just to list a few: no ads, longer usernames, rename icon keywords without them reverting to the default, multiple icon upload, imports, expandable entry cuts, ability to reply to screened comments without unscreening them, and more. There are also different packages for accounts, which can be seen here. With the paid account, you get 100 icons rather than 30 icons, thus no need to pay for an additional icon package. There have also been some discussion for additional icon packages for the future.
We’ve been here for x amount of years.
Many players have been on LJ for many years -- some from back when it was first opened. Because of this many players feel like LJ is their second home. They’ve weathered many of LJ’s changes in the past, both good and bad, and decided to stick with it regardless. Some of what’s happened is not new. They may also have non-RP purposes for their journals, like watching non-RP related communities or a group of personal LJ friends who won’t be on DW. Loyalty may play a big part in staying here and users should be allowed to do so if they so choose.
Regardless of the Outcome.
Loss of players.
Either way, we’re going to lose players. Whether it’s because of the inability to use the site or because of personal reasons. There is no ultimate win-win, so we have to try and choose what’s best for the game overall.
Other games have moved/are in the process of moving.
Players in multiple games are aware that there is some kind of movement going on in the RP Community. However, some may not realize just how much. For a reference, this thread has the most recent list of games of who have moved, who are in the process of moving, who will likely move due to the current poll results at the time it was posted, who are just now voting, and who are waiting in regard to the issue. As you can see, Somarium is on the “Will probably move” but that’s only because they’re going off by the current poll results. You can also see how we’re also listed at the bottom as one of the few remaining games to get through this.
CFUD has also been chosen by Dreamwidth themselves to be the community import test to see how much strain importing that much data will induce on their servers. Their importing began early Wednesday morning, 1/04/12. As of this post, there has been no notice of any negative feedback or severe downtime. For those who may not know, CFUD is the largest game in the RP Community, with roughly 180 players and 11 million comments on its main comm. Because of this it is considered an important aspect of the roleplaying community as a whole.
Because there are so many games moving to Dreamwidth, it is inevitable that a lot of the playerbase will be there and new games will appear more on DW than on LJ.
Other Concerns.
Stress on the DW server/importer.
As mentioned above, DW is already working on importing one of the largest RP communities on LJ to test the strain of the heavy influx on their servers. They have also repeatedly told their customers that they are prepared for the influx with additional servers at the ready and will fix any maintenance issues that may arise. But with several games having already moved with little to no problem, it seems like the site has been able to manage well.
[link]
Adjusting
Switching to a new site does mean we’d have to adjust to how it works. While Dreamwidth is similar to LJ, it has its own unique functions and differences. Fortunately there are many resources made and still being made available for people to utilize should we switch. Here are a couple:
Guide to RP-specific features on LJ vs DW
Dreamwidth resources, FAQ, open question-and-answer post
Quick links about Dreamwidth
Resource post
No “neutral” option
The main reason why there was initially no neutral option is because there would be no actual benefit regarding the decision to move. Our intentions were to poll players if it would be better for Somarium to move rather than how they personally felt by the move.
However, we have addressed this issue in the new poll. As you will see, we included 3 additional neutral based options along with the “move” and “stay” options. This way all possibilities are covered and it will provide us with a larger survey as to how players feel.
Timing
We touched a little bit about this in the above section about the community generally rushing through this, but here’s a more localized point for us. There are arguments that the timing was too soon. However, there are others saying that waiting too long would be just as detrimental. The fact of the matter is, we're one of the last few games actually discussing/polling right now. Only a very small handful have yet to vote or even discuss. You can get a very good idea of how many other games are proceeding through their own move topics here. So technically, we're actually right in the middle, if not more on the "late" side.
We also had this poll first with a move slated for further down the line because it takes time for us to move things over. We’re actually going to be overhauling and updating Somarium’s info pages because let’s face it -- they need work (Note: we’re still going to overhaul the pages anyway, so this is not contingent on the move). Because we don’t know if we’re moving yet or not, we did not do anything on DW except make the mod account (another player has made the main comm for security reasons) and we did not want to start moving things unless we knew for sure we are indeed moving. So we as mods will need time for that and players will need time to recreate journals, import/set up their accounts, adjust to the new site, and finish up threads before the game opens again in DW. We’re also considering running a sort of a “Test Drive” meme for players to use to get adjusted to the site and help those unfamiliar with it to also adjust.
That is why it is better for us to hold the poll first and then figure out a moving date down the line. Everything else hinges on this decision.
Issue regarding journal vs. comm
We tied it together to the poll to actually expedite the process. A few other games with a similar system to us did the exact same thing, so what we did is not unnatural. The switch was also brought up in the original discussion post last week. However, we can consider the current poll as a preliminary and host a new poll and discussion for the Journal vs. Community after this poll. The discussion and poll would not be separate-they will be combined because we feel like this issue is already being tossed about in the current poll post and will be discussed again here.
However, keep in mind that this is an issue only if the game decides to move. Thus this issue will be coinciding with the poll for when the game will move. We need to get these decisions made quickly-a lot of people are getting more frustrated not because of just these issues, but because of the uncertainty surrounding them. If possible, we'd like to tackle both at once, so-
Should the decision be a move, when should it be take place
Many have already expressed concern about when we'd move. As stated in our original discussion post, we had a wild ball pitch of earliest being the end of January if not February. Those are still optional, and those would be on the poll. Since at this point we would know that we are moving, the only real question is when. Also keep in mind that we will not be able to import the community until DW lifts the 100k comment restriction. Somarium’s main comm is over 300k comments. But that would not stop anyone’s ability to play as we have yet to decide how to handle importing the comm (whether to start it fresh, have a separate archive, or import it all later). Thus the moving time would basically be when people can start posting onto DW. This is just a heads up, this is not part of the poll. But our time options will be:
- End of January
- Beginning of February
- End of February
- Beginning of March
We know some have suggested longer, but we cannot wait longer than that. The main reason for our pitch for moving early is because we see no beneficial reason for us to hang around on LJ more than necessary. It would also be unfair for new applicants to app in when they know that we're going to Dreamwidth. We do want people to get adjusted to the new site and to move things over, so we would allow for some transfer time. That's why our options are for the beginning and the end of the months.
But that's a vote for after this poll. As with the Journals/Communities, the discussion post and the vote will be one in the same for the same reasoning. The issue is already being talked about and discussed here.
At the End of the Day.
Your vote affects the outcome of Somarium’s future and everyone should respect that vote no matter what the reason. Some may not be happy and some will be affected by the outcome. But in the end we’re all affected by it. We know not everyone can be happy -- it’s impossible to do that. But we have to try and make the best decision overall.
And now we come to our final message in regards to the recent discussions.
Final words.
As we said before, we've been watching the discussion in the previous post. While there have been a several good threads going on, there have been an alarming large number of threads that are clearly heated from both sides. The problem isn't the arguments themselves but how everyone is reacting to opposing opinions. Several feel as if they are being attacked when they are not, and thus responses come off worse than they should. This only perpetuates the frustrated and tense atmosphere that is already in place by the issue itself.
We're not saying that people should stop talking or debate with one another. We are not saying that no one’s opinion is valid. We are saying that you need to respect one another's opinions even if you strongly disagree with them. This isn't a competition, this isn't a place to try and persuade someone onto your side. You can do that elsewhere. Right now and right here, this is only a place to talk about the issue. Again, people are going to disagree because people have their own opinions and some do involve personal reasons.
That in itself is not bad.
But jumping down on each other's throats and making the other feel as if their opinion is invalidated is. Everyone is already feeling frustrated -- this is only making it worse.
Now, we're not saying everyone is doing this nor are we targeting any particular side. As said before there have been several threads where great civil discussions have occurred. But there have been more threads than we'd like that are the opposite, and it's only been worsening as time goes on. Some may not notice this at first glance because they're in the discussion. But there are quite a number of people watching from the outside, us mods included, that are shocked by some of the behavior players on both sides of the debate have shown. Yes, both sides are at fault here.
To be frank, a lot of people are now making this poll more personally than they should. The question to move or stay was intended to be for the benefit of the game as a whole. Somehow this got lost, and perhaps we should have been clearer about it. But we also thought it would have been clear. Why else would we even consider the move? Yes, some players will get hurt more than others, but that is going to happen no matter what decision we make and no matter what the topic is. We can't make everyone happy -- that is unfortunate. But we do try to do everything with everyone as a collective in mind and believe that will be beneficial to even those who are hurt in the short run.
If this sounds harsh, it is. We apologize if we offended anyone, but we can assure you that is not our intention. Our intention is to make everyone aware what is really at stake here, and the “war” between “LJ vs. DW” clouded it. Again, this isn’t about the “war.” We may be caught up in it in some way, but ultimately it’s about the game and what we need to do. Some may not agree to our post, and that’s okay. Like all of you, this is our own statement and own opinion in the matter -- we don’t expect everyone to agree or follow it. If you do feel angry or offended by our message, take a deep breath, step back, and ask yourself why. Then see if it makes any sense in regard to what is written here.
But in the end, for us at least, this whole move is about the game, present and future. It's about how the game will work now and how it will thrive in long run. We are here to play, to get along with one another, and make people feel like they are welcome in this game no matter their opinion. We are here for the people around us and the people who want to be around us.
Let’s not forget that.
This has been lost in all of the debates, and this is why we made this post. All we ask is that everyone try to keep things as civil and impersonal as possible.
REPOLLING
As mentioned, we are going to do a repoll of the votes. Some have questioned bias and neutrality, so while we don’t know how much of it will change, it would be fairer to do so. We have also removed the “Journals/Comm” question and we will save that for another time. For this poll, try not to consider it as part of your vote. That can still be debated. We have added some neutral options for players to choose from. As stated in another section, this should hopefully catch a larger spread of the players.
Instead of it being hosted on LJ, we’re actually doing this offsite to facilitate those who have issues. This will also NOT display the results. However, this may actually be for the best as people will not feel pressured by comparing their vote one way or another. When we hit about 50%~75%, we’ll update this post with what the numbers look like so far so players aren’t left with complete uncertainty.
The link to the poll can be found here and is maintained by us. We will not count any votes that are invalid, and if we see duplicate usernames with conflicting votes, we will contact the player in question to verify.
We hope this version is fairer for everyone and that this way tempers can be cooled a bit.
The deadline is still January 11, 2012 or if all players have voted before then. If we need to extend it, we can. But judging from the previous poll where 75% of the playerbase voted within the first 24 hours, we think this will be okay.
You are free to continue to place your comments in the original poll post or start anew here. You can directly ask questions and we'll answer. Just remember our one big rule throughout all of this: be respectful and be polite.