Wrong country, but still true

[soleta_nf]

I voted!

Canadians: Remember to vote! Also remember to bring ID with your correct address on it (or a bill with your name and address), as that's messing some people up at the polls today.

If you don't vote, you can't complain!

Comments

[newnumber6]

If you don't vote, you can't complain!

I hate that phrase. It actually makes me _less_ likely to vote.

[soleta_nf]

Seriously? I really believe it.

Edit: This is how I phrased it on Facebook: "Vote, or don't you DARE complain!" :)

[newnumber6]

But there's no real connection. In most cases (aside from a few ridings) a single vote really doesn't affect the outcome one bit. Whereas complaining can actually alter viewpoints and affect change

[soleta_nf]

From my point of view, voting isn't that hard. It's a basic duty that everyone should exercise. I would prefer it that were enforced, actually, like they do in Australia (I think they have a fine system there). I fully support people spoiling their ballot or rejecting their ballot if they don't feel like any of the choices given. But I think it's really really lazy and ludicrous not to vote.

I have a number of friends who don't vote, and many of them make political arguments. They do have a point. I think their main argument is that by voting they endorse the political system as it is set up, and if enough people don't vote, the politicians will have to change the system eventually. My response is that, no, politicians will assume you're lazy and as long as the system benefits them, they won't care. This is where spoiling your ballot or rejecting your ballot could be really powerful - imagine if one election we had the highest voter turnout ever, and a majority of voters rejected their ballots!

[newnumber6]

I disagree that it'd make the difference. The parties still have the same power whether a vote is spoiled or not cast at all. They're just as likely to not want things to change because the system still benefits them. The only difference is they're more likely to think we're stupid (oops, another idiot marked in the wrong place) rather than lazy and apathetic.

If voting became mandatory, I'd probably refuse to vote (and accept the consequences) on principle, the system would be even more broken - it's not going to encourage people to be more interested, it's just going to make more people who are voting on even less substantive issues. People who are interested should vote (in general, however there are plenty of good reasons why people who are interested might not vote). People who are not should not.

[jpman]

I would prefer it that were enforced, actually, like they do in Australia

I vote. Every election. But if this ever came to be, I would leave Canada. Forcing people to take part in the political system is undemocratic, IMO. We have the *right* to vote. If we choose to exercise this right then great for us. I believe as responsible citizens we should do this. But if it ever came to a point where I was forced to take part, I would question the purpose behind it. Is the system simply looking to perpetuate itself, or is is truly looking to give people choice and freedom. Choice is something democracies stand for, to my way of thinking. Even if that choice it not to make an active choice, that is still a type of choice.

[shanaqui]

The first time I voted was for a local election, rather than a general election, but the thing I took away from the experience was that one vote does count. The party I voted for got in by a single vote. My vote, really. If I hadn't voted, the party I hate would've got in. Granted, things will not work like that on a national level, most likely. Still.

I think she's right, though. Voting is pretty simple and even if you just go and spoil your ballot paper to show you abstain, you've done something within the voting system that might lead to change. It's all very well to, say, complain online about the government and say you're not voting because you don't support the system, but honestly... how much impact is that going to have? Probably, unless you're very concerned and vocal and active, none at all.

[newnumber6]

Not much, no, I believe it'll have far more impact than a single vote will, whether spoiled or given to a party.

Again, I'm not against voting per se... One should get involved, monitor the debates, and, if you decide not to vote, make an informed decision not to (even if it's just because, say, you know you're in a safe riding, as opposed to one where there's a real risk of someone you hate getting in). I'm against the kneejerk attitudes contained in the phrase "if you don't vote, you can't complain". If you're _just_ not voting because you don't care about politics, I'm right there with you (well, I still wouldn't go so far as to say 'you can't complain, because I still believe that's stupid. Complaining is a more fundamental right and _duty_ than voting. But I'd certainly look down on people who don't.). But I don't like generalized statements like that.

[soleta_nf]

Adding on to shanaqui's point: Each vote gives approx. $1.50 to the party you vote for, and a certain number of votes guarantees funding for these parties. So if a bunch of people are affected by the "one vote won't make a lick of difference" mentality, that could have HUGE implications for minority parties in terms of funding and access to resources, affecting their ability to compete in future elections.

Voting also establishes the voting pattern in a particular jurisdiction, so that even if, say, the NDP don't win a certain riding but the came in second place - next time they know that riding is winnable. They know that base support is there, and they'll target more funds and effort in ridings that fit that criteria.

[newnumber6]

All of that assumes that I'm a huge mass of people. But I'm not. I'm just one. So really, again, your vote still does practically nothing, most of the time. If you take the attitude that you will judge people harshly for not behaving as though they were a whole mass of people, then you also should be castigating anybody who eats meat, anybody who buys anything from many corporations that may support things you hate, etc