Harry Potter discussion on PS/SS (the first four chapters)
Especially if I continue to put so much thought and care into my questions for hp_read, the Harry Potter read-a-long group, I will be posting them here complete with a synopses of the discussion that followed. Cuts mercifully provided. :)
Child abuse and Harry Potter: Dumbledore's choice? (Chapters 1 and 2)
( The original thread.)
I find it interesting that Dumbledore knowingly put Harry in a situation where he would not have a good childhood. Dumbledore says that Harry will be a better person because of his modest beginnings, compared to growing up as a celebrity in the wizarding world. I don't disagree. Harry now - as emo as he is - has a better head on his shoulders than he likely would have otherwise.
But this comes at a high price, as the "modest beginnings" involved severe neglect and emotional abuse. My question is about the extent to which Dumbledore was aware of the situation in which he was placing Harry.
1. Does Dumbledore really believe what he tells McGonagall, that as bad as it got for Harry at the Dursleys, Harry was better off and became a better person for it? Is it better to have had a rough start in life, and be a modest, loving person, or risk becoming spoiled and ungrateful, which presumably Harry would have become under different circumstances? (Hence the Draco foil and Harry's important decision between choosing Draco's or Ron's friendship, as well as Harry's choice between Gryffindor and Slytherin.)
2. Or, was this simply something Dumbledore told McGonagall so he didn't have to explain the true reason Harry was there - i.e. the magical blood protection he knew Harry would have in the Dursleys care. If this is the case, then is it correct to conclude that Dumbledore decided that the abuse Harry would suffer was worth the protection it would grant him from Voldemort later in life?
3. Or, finally, perhaps Dumbledore honestly didn't think the situation would degenerate as badly as it did. Maybe he knew Harry wouldn't be spoiled in any sense of the word, but he didn't think that Harry would actually suffer cruelty at the hands of his blood kin. If this is the case, surely Dumbledore found this out at some point, considering how close an eye he kept on Harry. Why, then, didn't he intervene? (For the reasons explained above?)
To give you an idea where this is coming from for me, it's very personal. I empathize with Harry a lot (even screamy emo Harry) because of his childhood. The idea that Dumbledore thought that the abuse would be worth it in the end, and that Harry - while having issues - would not be permanently scarred, is an attractive one to me. I guess I'm wondering if survivors of child abuse can find some kind of comfort or salvation in Dumbledore's choice (or even in Harry's life). That we are not damaged goods, and that we can lead healthy, normal, productive and meaningful lives.
(I can provide chapter quotes if people would find that helpful.)
My synopsis of the discussion that followed
From the comments here.
Dumbledore's surveillance: Do chapters 2 and 3 provide any clues?
( The original thread.)
I am very curious about how Dumbledore arranged for the surveillance of Harry while he grew up with the Dursleys and just how much Dumbledore knew about Harry's situation at any given time. Last night while reading chapter 2, I got really excited thinking What on earth kind of surveillance does Dumbledore have that he knows Harry sleeps in the cupboard under the stairs, and then the next night upstairs in the smallest room, but yet he doesn't know Harry hasn't learned about his wizarding heritage? But today a friend suggested the letters were sent to Harry magically, and now that I've finished chapter three, I see Hagrid's admission at the end supports this:
We already know about Mrs. Figg, but surely Dumbledore did more than have Mrs. Figg torment Harry with cat photos twice a year. Perhaps she was more active in her surveillance than she later lets on?
Also, I got in a Heroes reference during the Harry Potter discussion! \o/
Child abuse and Harry Potter: Dumbledore's choice? (Chapters 1 and 2)
( The original thread.)
I find it interesting that Dumbledore knowingly put Harry in a situation where he would not have a good childhood. Dumbledore says that Harry will be a better person because of his modest beginnings, compared to growing up as a celebrity in the wizarding world. I don't disagree. Harry now - as emo as he is - has a better head on his shoulders than he likely would have otherwise.
But this comes at a high price, as the "modest beginnings" involved severe neglect and emotional abuse. My question is about the extent to which Dumbledore was aware of the situation in which he was placing Harry.
1. Does Dumbledore really believe what he tells McGonagall, that as bad as it got for Harry at the Dursleys, Harry was better off and became a better person for it? Is it better to have had a rough start in life, and be a modest, loving person, or risk becoming spoiled and ungrateful, which presumably Harry would have become under different circumstances? (Hence the Draco foil and Harry's important decision between choosing Draco's or Ron's friendship, as well as Harry's choice between Gryffindor and Slytherin.)
2. Or, was this simply something Dumbledore told McGonagall so he didn't have to explain the true reason Harry was there - i.e. the magical blood protection he knew Harry would have in the Dursleys care. If this is the case, then is it correct to conclude that Dumbledore decided that the abuse Harry would suffer was worth the protection it would grant him from Voldemort later in life?
3. Or, finally, perhaps Dumbledore honestly didn't think the situation would degenerate as badly as it did. Maybe he knew Harry wouldn't be spoiled in any sense of the word, but he didn't think that Harry would actually suffer cruelty at the hands of his blood kin. If this is the case, surely Dumbledore found this out at some point, considering how close an eye he kept on Harry. Why, then, didn't he intervene? (For the reasons explained above?)
To give you an idea where this is coming from for me, it's very personal. I empathize with Harry a lot (even screamy emo Harry) because of his childhood. The idea that Dumbledore thought that the abuse would be worth it in the end, and that Harry - while having issues - would not be permanently scarred, is an attractive one to me. I guess I'm wondering if survivors of child abuse can find some kind of comfort or salvation in Dumbledore's choice (or even in Harry's life). That we are not damaged goods, and that we can lead healthy, normal, productive and meaningful lives.
(I can provide chapter quotes if people would find that helpful.)
My synopsis of the discussion that followed
From the comments here.
- One person suggested that perhaps the Harry Potter story as a whole has an element of allegory in it that isn't meant to be taken literally, like the bible. I'm not sure I agree, but it's certainly an interesting point and would alleviate many of my concerned questions.
- Another commenter brought up the fact that Dumbledore often sees the good in people even when it's not there, which he admits later is his "greatest weakness".
- Someone else brought up the excellent point that Dumbledore must have had more surveillance on Harry than just a couple of Mrs. Figg visits a year. If that's the case, then he must have known what was going on, and (my favourite point!) he could have at least sent the Dursleys a howler or something to convince them to at least tone down their cruelty to Harry (if he felt removing Harry from the home wasn't an option).
- Apparently I'm not alone in my frustrations with Dumbledore. She mentions that Dumbledore at that point didn't know about the blood protection (since he is shocked by it at the end of PS/SS), so he really could have left Harry with any number of families who would have sheltered him from his fame without actually resorting to abuse.
Dumbledore's surveillance: Do chapters 2 and 3 provide any clues?
( The original thread.)
I am very curious about how Dumbledore arranged for the surveillance of Harry while he grew up with the Dursleys and just how much Dumbledore knew about Harry's situation at any given time. Last night while reading chapter 2, I got really excited thinking What on earth kind of surveillance does Dumbledore have that he knows Harry sleeps in the cupboard under the stairs, and then the next night upstairs in the smallest room, but yet he doesn't know Harry hasn't learned about his wizarding heritage? But today a friend suggested the letters were sent to Harry magically, and now that I've finished chapter three, I see Hagrid's admission at the end supports this:
- "I'm - er - not supposed ter do magic, strictly speakin'. I was allowed ter do a bit ter follow yeh an' get yer letters to yeh an' stuff - one o' the reasons I was so keen ter take on the job." (UK edition, p. 48)
We already know about Mrs. Figg, but surely Dumbledore did more than have Mrs. Figg torment Harry with cat photos twice a year. Perhaps she was more active in her surveillance than she later lets on?
Also, I got in a Heroes reference during the Harry Potter discussion! \o/