One of the things I really felt they were building up... pretty much until they brought Varian back was that while the Horde was knitting itself together closely due to the fact that the various factions within the Horde *owed Thrall personally*. The tauren? Owed Thrall. The trolls? Owed Thrall. The ogres... well, they owed Rexxar, who owes Thrall, or at least is loyal to him. Things get vaguer as you hit the Blood Elves and the Forsaken, but I've always felt the inclusion of the Forsaken as being very weak, and would rather have seen the goblins or the ogres filling that slot.
The Alliance, on the other hand, owed *Terenas*. He was personal friends with many of the faction leaders, but from the moment the Second War ended, the Alliance started crumbling, from Gilneas and Stromgarde actually pulling out, to Alterac's gross mishandling, to Kul Tiras *supposedly* being out of the Alliance according to BtDP but actually wasn't, to the more recent lore claiming that *Quel'thalas* wasn't a part of the Alliance any more. Even ignoring these last two points, the Alliance was crumbling. The Wildhammer were only really involved in the Second War because of the dragons, and the Gnomes weren't involved in the Third War because they basically managed to nuke themselves and were dealing with the fallout. When WoW happened, any chance of there being affiliated high elves died when they were replaced by the Night Elves, who have no logical reason to be any part of the Alliance, and would probably be more closely philosophically aligned with the Horde had the orcs not murdered their god. The Draenei are *nonsensical*, and the worgen... well, let me put it this way, of all of the heel-turning WoW does to their characters, Genn's the first I've seen go the opposite way. He was a *douchebag*. He was selfish, cowardly and took the first out he could and BUILT A GODDAMN WALL AROUND HIS COUNTRY. And yet *his* country, not, I don't know, fucking Kul Tiras which is one of the only TWO human nations still in the Alliance, the other being Azeroth. Of course, Blizzard doesn't give a flying fuck about Kul Tiras, openly mocking people asking about it when they do.
Blizz seems to be very adept at taking the chickenwuss easy way out with storytelling and thus writing themselves into corners a lot. They needed a full-out war so they wrote Varian and Garrosh as pants-on-the-head stupid jerkasses. And the only people I know who like them that way are Billy Badasses or poor-woobie enablers (who usually trigger me out the ears so bad I have to shut a window before I drive them to despair)--or star-struck OMG HAWT!!!1! teenyboops of various gender when it comes to Varian (even though his in-game model is terrible). The business with the Forsaken? Strikes me as entirely "OH PANIC PANIC PANIC WE DON'T HAVE AN UNDEAD SCARY FACTION NOW, DO SOMETHING!" So now you've thrown a race down the moral slip 'n slide and...now what? Are you planning redemption? IS there some percolating plot with the Thing Under Tirisfal? Or do you even know what the hell you're doing besides pissing me off with your implications that women are unstable and mental illness is synonymous with immorality and outright sociopathy? And frantically trying to hide teh ghey?
This is why I ignore canon--the writing gets offensively poor on account of lazy hackery and bad attitudes.
Anyway! Word in re: Kul Tiras. WTF is that about? Bringing Kul Tiras closer to the Alliance at the same time as they did Gilneas would've set up a very interesting dynamic and given lots of crunchy plot material. Varian and Genn might grinch about Jaina's pacifism but I doubt either of them can deny she gets shit done and she's the superior tactician by far. Varian is the WAAUUUGH type (yes I put it that way on purpose lol) and Genn turtles. Those tactics have their time and place but you can't rely on either exclusively. Staying in Jaina's good books means her mind is working FOR you. I would really not want to be the poor sap who has to play chess as it were against Jaina. Considering she helped out-maneuver ARCHIMONDE, who's easily 30 000 years old at least? (One would think that would come up more in WoW. She kind of helped save the world.)
Plus I have to admit the idea of Jaina calling out her water elemental to drench Varian and Genn after they come to blows over something is really funny.
Bleh. I don't know. They seem to be just determined to use the Idiot Ball as the principal means of advancing plot. The bit in The Shattering with the Twilight's Hammer attacking the N'elves to start shit--I would think that after ALL THIS TIME and after getting to know one another via the Earthen Ring and the Tauren, the N'elves would know that Orcs to not think well AT ALL of desecrating the dead. Gul'dan is kind of REVILED for that, among lots of other shit. I would think the response'd be, "...Aw hell, is the Legion making another push!?" or at worst "Flossing fuck, did someone drink demon blood up in here because SERIOUSLY--"
it wasn't that dumb to have forsaken in the horde.
1.) They were in a weak position; quite frankly they needed allies and the horde was willing to help for several reasons
a.) strategic value; they wielded power over a large portion of the eastern kingdoms. Thrall admitted that was one of his reasons for working with sylvannas.
b.) Also, they were victims of the Legion's cruetlty (the weapon that turned them into abominations was made at the behest of the legion and the initial acts of scourge douchebaggery were done at the behest of the legion) and thrall of all people knows that people deserve a shot at redemption. It would have been hypocritical not to try to help them. The orcs could sympathise since they lost everything due to the legion's cruel
Also, The draenei are actually not nonsenical; tey lost a great deal to the orcs and the belves (both of whom are in the horde); while the orcs were deceived by kil'jaeden they were willing to go along on some level and the belves revered kael (they had no clue that he was cuckoo for cocoa puffs but they still followed him). Night elves realized they need a part in the world and the orcs did shoot themselves in the foot by whacking cenarius.
The Alliance, on the other hand, owed *Terenas*. He was personal friends with many of the faction leaders, but from the moment the Second War ended, the Alliance started crumbling, from Gilneas and Stromgarde actually pulling out, to Alterac's gross mishandling, to Kul Tiras *supposedly* being out of the Alliance according to BtDP but actually wasn't, to the more recent lore claiming that *Quel'thalas* wasn't a part of the Alliance any more. Even ignoring these last two points, the Alliance was crumbling. The Wildhammer were only really involved in the Second War because of the dragons, and the Gnomes weren't involved in the Third War because they basically managed to nuke themselves and were dealing with the fallout. When WoW happened, any chance of there being affiliated high elves died when they were replaced by the Night Elves, who have no logical reason to be any part of the Alliance, and would probably be more closely philosophically aligned with the Horde had the orcs not murdered their god. The Draenei are *nonsensical*, and the worgen... well, let me put it this way, of all of the heel-turning WoW does to their characters, Genn's the first I've seen go the opposite way. He was a *douchebag*. He was selfish, cowardly and took the first out he could and BUILT A GODDAMN WALL AROUND HIS COUNTRY. And yet *his* country, not, I don't know, fucking Kul Tiras which is one of the only TWO human nations still in the Alliance, the other being Azeroth. Of course, Blizzard doesn't give a flying fuck about Kul Tiras, openly mocking people asking about it when they do.
Feh.
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This is why I ignore canon--the writing gets offensively poor on account of lazy hackery and bad attitudes.
Anyway! Word in re: Kul Tiras. WTF is that about? Bringing Kul Tiras closer to the Alliance at the same time as they did Gilneas would've set up a very interesting dynamic and given lots of crunchy plot material. Varian and Genn might grinch about Jaina's pacifism but I doubt either of them can deny she gets shit done and she's the superior tactician by far. Varian is the WAAUUUGH type (yes I put it that way on purpose lol) and Genn turtles. Those tactics have their time and place but you can't rely on either exclusively. Staying in Jaina's good books means her mind is working FOR you. I would really not want to be the poor sap who has to play chess as it were against Jaina. Considering she helped out-maneuver ARCHIMONDE, who's easily 30 000 years old at least? (One would think that would come up more in WoW. She kind of helped save the world.)
Plus I have to admit the idea of Jaina calling out her water elemental to drench Varian and Genn after they come to blows over something is really funny.
Bleh. I don't know. They seem to be just determined to use the Idiot Ball as the principal means of advancing plot. The bit in The Shattering with the Twilight's Hammer attacking the N'elves to start shit--I would think that after ALL THIS TIME and after getting to know one another via the Earthen Ring and the Tauren, the N'elves would know that Orcs to not think well AT ALL of desecrating the dead. Gul'dan is kind of REVILED for that, among lots of other shit. I would think the response'd be, "...Aw hell, is the Legion making another push!?" or at worst "Flossing fuck, did someone drink demon blood up in here because SERIOUSLY--"
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1.) They were in a weak position; quite frankly they needed allies and the horde was willing to help for several reasons
a.) strategic value; they wielded power over a large portion of the eastern kingdoms. Thrall admitted that was one of his reasons for working with sylvannas.
b.) Also, they were victims of the Legion's cruetlty (the weapon that turned them into abominations was made at the behest of the legion and the initial acts of scourge douchebaggery were done at the behest of the legion) and thrall of all people knows that people deserve a shot at redemption. It would have been hypocritical not to try to help them. The orcs could sympathise since they lost everything due to the legion's cruel
Also, The draenei are actually not nonsenical; tey lost a great deal to the orcs and the belves (both of whom are in the horde); while the orcs were deceived by kil'jaeden they were willing to go along on some level and the belves revered kael (they had no clue that he was cuckoo for cocoa puffs but they still followed him). Night elves realized they need a part in the world and the orcs did shoot themselves in the foot by whacking cenarius.
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I'm not especially interested in your viewpoint, and you never asked for permission to express it here, so you're now banned.
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