"SNSD, I am your (sugar) daddy." -Japan to SNSD

[greywing]

From BBC: The dark side of South Korean pop music (via International Wota)

With downward pressure on music prices at home, "many top artists make more money from one week in Japan than they do in one year in Korea", Mr Cho says

Comments

[iacus]

Would SME have much success if they debuted a group in Japan or America or wherever right now? I mean, it seems to me that a big factor in the appeal of these groups to foreigners is that they are Korean groups, and that they're visiting (so to speak) foreign countries. So if SME focused too much on the foreign market (if SNSD was "less Korean") it might paradoxically decrease their popularity there, or at least not give them as big a return as this split between many different countries gives now.

[greywing]

I think you're right that the group has to be "Korean." That is, produced according to the Korean system and homegrown where they are. Though I do wonder if such a system as that which Korea uses to train idols would be viable in Japan or if it's just too cost heavy for the Japanese to want to do.

What I'm wondering, I think, is if a group can . . . cease to be Korean, despite having started there and been manufactured there. That is, can DBSK be seen as something more as a Japanese monster of a group since they're a) successful there and b) are likely to want to pursue that market more? Likewise with all this exportation. Is the "Korean" brand just all the training and preparation and glitz? Or is there more to it?

[iacus]

When I said "Korean" I mostly meant culturally. That is, the idea of them being a foreign group, and of liking a foreign group, is important to their international fans.

I wrote and deleted a lot of stuff here because I guess i'm not really sure how important that really is to fans and how it affects the popularity of these groups.

[greywing]

Interesting. So do you think it's less important that they're "Korean" specifically and more important that they're just something else? Moreover and following that thought, as one becomes more and more immersed in the fandom, does the "Korean" stamp gain more and more significance? (This would be for the majority of the hardcore fanbase, as casual fans are an entirely different beast.)

You should've posted it anyway, iacus! I usually just thought vomit to see if anything sticks onto anyone else's mind.

[brackdiamon]

Is, in fact, an SNSD in Japan (or Europe or the USA) different from an SNSD in Korea? I don't just mean language, either, I mean entire perception.To my own eyes, yeah, a little bit. The way they are presented in terms of their image and style over there is a refreshing change to how they've had to show themselves most of the time over in Korea. It's as if they are allowed to actually act their age in Japan; to show a more classy and mature side I guess you could say

[just_keep_on]

DBSK and BoA really were the ones who had it the hardest - they were the forerunners and really had to start from the ground up. It seems like everyone else is simply jumping on the bandwagon that they started.

But like you mentioned, it was less about "hallyu expansion" - it seemed like they really wanted to get into the market there, and they really could "pass" as Japanese. I think this was mentioned somewhere before, but it makes one wonder if it's a deliberate move to have SNSD *not* learn the language, to still be viewed as Korean.

I think the flack is because it shows that they're totally in Japan for the money, that they're not really trying to be invested in that country. They're not going to be there all the time like DBSK or BoA or even KARA - just wham bam, thank you Japan, and then off to another country. (At least, that's what one article seemed like their plan was - the whole "globalization" thing.)

[greywing]

The fact that most of the band is still trying to learn Japanese kind of makes it hard for them to stop getting shit from the international fans about not knowing the language

I feel bad about them getting flack for the language shit though. Between flying from one country to another to this and that not everyone is going to be learning Nihongo at the same speed!But . . . shuold they know the language? I find it pretty jarring to watch their variety show appearances because they do appear with a translator and it kind of sucks the fun out of the hosts' teasing. Like "Hey! Hey! Hey!" really wasn't that fun because the fact that a translator middleman was needed means that the rhythm of back and forth between hosts and guests is lost. It detracts

[arbitrary_greay]

if there's a place that SNSD could be really (forced to do things) crazy and out there . . .

Fucking K-fen being all up in arms about their groups' dignity ruining our fun.

Besides, nobody needs subs or translators to understand that girls with meat steaks strapped to their heads in the same cage as a hungry lizard is AWESOME. SNSD not knowing the language is no excuse for boring appearances!

[arbitrary_greay]

yet it is entirely beneficial to them that International fans have the Korean mindset.

I wonder. Do not click this link unless you want to read some infuriating bullshit, but it serves as a contrast to the AKB48 marketing in which the fan doesn't have to care about anything their oshimen isn't involved in. Inter-member competition is encouraged by the likes of the senbatsu elections, and it's working out beautifully for the management. Over 1 million votes cast in this past election!(Although even more amazingly, compared to the actual sales and including the fact that about 300K of the votes were from the votes freely given to the fanclub members, there were about 300-500k CD sales to casual fans that didn't vote! SUCK IT SNSD, votes for the top 3 girls alone is more than your 1st Japan album sales :P) The votes for the top 4 girls alone was more than the entirety of votes cast for last year's election!(Which means that there was also around 200K casual non-voting fan sales for Ponytail)

would it be possible for the filters

[whatonemore]

I remember reading on Omtd and other Kpop news sites that most Koreans don't really pay much attention to Kpop. Not to mention how Koreans and their internet usage... XD

I thought they meant unsustainable in monetary/ idol system terms.

I think this was mentioned somewhere before, but it makes one wonder if it's a deliberate move to have SNSD *not* learn the language, to still be viewed as Korean.

Not sure if this applies, but with SJ-M in Taiwan SME pretty much deliberately promotes them with Kpop style music as opposed to producing and promoting them with more Cpop style music. Half of them can't speak decent Chinese but it certainly doesn't hinder their popularity since fans think its cute as hal

Although I suppose SNSD's Japanese music so far sounds more Japanese than Korean.

[whatonemore]

cute as hale*

[just_keep_on]

SME pretty much deliberately promotes them [SJ-M] with Kpop style music
Is it the difference in markets? (China vs Japan) Difference in group popularity? (SJ-M vs SNSD) IRT not learning the language: SJ-M doesn't get any flack for not knowing Chinese?

[whatonemore]

I'd say the difference in the two markets count. I don't know much about Jpop but I'd suppose Jpop is a lot more diverse and has a separate "idol system" whereas the Cpop music scene is similarly more easily trend driven like Kpop.

And a lot of new Cpop bands imitate Kpop's music/style/choreography a lot, but it ends up making them like second grade Kpop wannabes. I guess this brings us back to the question of the whole "Korean" identity thing and what Kpop is.

SJ-M doesn't really get much flack for not knowing enough Chinese... on the contrary, the hosts pretty much pander to them and give them a much easier time. But maybe it's just a Taiwanese hospitality thing- since they are sometimes referred to as "guests".

[just_keep_on]

IRT "Korean-ness": How important is it that things are done in house? I mean like songs and choreography. There's been hoopla over groups doing their own lyrics and music of course, but what about when companies get music from other countries? And we all know about Rino choreographing for SME - does it matter that she's not Korean? Do any of these factors make the group less Korean?

I'm mostly asking because I've been pretty impressed with f(x)'s stage for Hot Summer, which apparently is a song SME bought or something like that.

(But also, if none of the above really changes the level of Korean-ness of an idol, then it goes back to how they were "created" - the idol training system and all that. If a Korean were to train in America and then debut in Korea, would they still be considered a "Korean idol"?)

[arbitrary_greay]

Musically, SM's pretty much gone all Norwegian except for Koreans writing their sappy K-ballads. XD

The Korean-ness I think lies in the concept of the high-performance talent idol group, because there's not that much of a difference between Lee Hyori and Amuro Namie. And the high level of performance talent is what sets the Kpop idol group apart from the Jpop idol group in execution.

[just_keep_on]

Totally let out a cackle-LOL XDDDD This is so true~~~ I feel like we should list all the countries SME has gotten their songs from XD

because there's not that much of a difference between Lee Hyori and Amuro Namie
Wow, that is *so true* o_o!! So it really is the groups that make the difference. I think the high performance level of K-pop acts really helped to draw me into Kpop ....

[askbask]

With how good Yoo Young-jin is at polishing fairly anonymous-sounding demos it's odd to me that SM doesn't invest in fostering more in-house songwriters who could do a rough appropriation of a song before he puts the f(x) touch or Shinee touch on it.