Okay, I'm going to preface this by saying you should feel welcome to take anything I say here with a grain of salt. The voices in Young Avengers are kind of malleable to begin with, and as a result, everyone is going to have a different interpretation. So it's possible we're just reading the text differently, which is fine! I think I'm just going to... ramble a bit and share my thoughts, and hopefully along the line I'll stumble upon something that might seem helpful. ♥
To me, Young Avengers is a story about being an Other. All of the kids are actually Othered in a way unrelated to being a superhero -- the gay teenagers, the drug addict, the girl with family problems, the rape survivor, the bullied kid, the juvenile delinquent, the robot. And in my reading, the main thing really tying these kids together is their need to belong to something. They want to help, yes. They want to make a difference, yes. But they also desperately want to have a group of people in which they fit in unconditionally. Teddy especially has a history of feeling alienated from his age group -- he's gone to great lengths to fit in with people, often employing questionable moral decisions in the process.
It... actually wasn't until he was invited to the Young Avengers that he found a place he could stop hiding! And I kind of feel there's... actually an impression given in canon that it's one of the only places he's stopped hiding. He was ready to come out to his (and Billy's) parents about being a superhero before he was ready to come out about being homosexual -- and with the mutant stigma in the Marvelverse (and that's what he thought he was, at the time), I feel that's pretty heavily indicative of which part of himself he was becoming more comfortable with. Combine this with the fact that there are never really any blatant physical or verbal indications that Billy and Teddy are boyfriends (most of it is quite understated, to be honest), and I get the impression that while he is comfortably homosexual in the book, he is not exactly openly homosexual. So to have him so casual about it in camp makes me do a double-take. I don't think it's something he is ashamed of, don't get me wrong! But I'm genuinely confused at how offhand he can be when I don't really feel he comes off that way in canon.
The second thing is less specific and more a general feeling I get reading his threads. I admit I have only been reading them intermittently, and I get a little confused sometimes as to which are Teddy and which are Hulkling (which I'll touch on in a minute), but I just get the sense that Teddy... is not flawed. At all. He is consistently helpful and agreeable no matter the situation, he always takes the path of least resistance when talking to someone, and he's just generally very... good. And he should be! These are some of his major qualities. He's meant to be heroic! But the things that humanize him seem to be missing. To me, it almost feels like a barebones idea of the character: good guy, helpful, alien, gay. Where is his need to belong, his malleable moral compass? Where is the part of him that would impersonate people back home in order to gain acceptance with his classmates? I haven't seen this side of Teddy in camp at all, and while it's arguable that it would not manifest in the same way (due to, you know, actually finding some of the acceptance he craves), I still believe that level of insecurity would manifest somehow. And I haven't seen it.
Lastly is the Teddy/Hulkling thing and how I've seen it played in camp. Or, to be a little more specific, how I... haven't. I'm going to be frank and admit that part of this is how the icons are used interchangeably -- it makes it really, really hard to make the distinction for me, but this is possibly because I'm a visual person. But other than that, I almost always see Hulkling commenting as opposed to Teddy. Which... to me implies that he sees himself as Hulkling, and not Teddy. Appearance has a whole new level of meaning when shapeshifting is involved. And when Teddy spends such a large amount of time as Hulkling, it makes me wonder if he even really sees himself as Teddy Altman anymore. I'm not sure if this is the goal you had in mind, but I'd like to hear your thoughts either way.
This is getting a little tl;dr (s-sorry), so I'm just going to end it. But I'd really like to hear your views on this stuff since, like I said, it may all be down to interpretation differences. Thanks. ♥
This is just to let you know that I have seen this and I do intend to respond once I get enough time to address the issues properly.
It should be after my shift today or on Tuesday (my day off).
Thank you for giving this crit though. I've actually been worried about one of the issues you brought up and looking for ways to correct it.
The gay thing is something I can address now, though, because it's a simple explanation.
In canon they did come out in a major way during the special (the one with the interviews) "Why let Northstar have all the fun?"
So being out was part of the superhero persona by the time he came to camp. He wasn't going to deny. Of course he wasn't going to shout from the rooftops either but when it came up he would be truthful.
Then, he gets nothing but very positive responses every time (or at worst "Oh, so you're gay. Ok" responses) in camp. There was only one negative response during an entire year so by now he's very laid back about the whole thing.
In another environment I'd see him being a little more cautious but I can't ever see him being untruthful about it now that he is out.
Well, the icon and Teddy vs. Hulkling thing is easily explained.
He still tries very hard to keep up his secret identity (this I think goes back to the hiding thing. He's not ready to admit to most people what exactly he is) and so tries to keep his personas separate as much as possible. So Teddy is generally only around in the Hospital, very occasionally the mess hall and his cabin. Hulkling is out and about most of the camp and thus tends to be out more places, if you get my meaning. I haven't gotten to do many Teddy threads lately, which is sad because he tries so hard to come across as a normal teenager to other people and tends to fail.
Icons... well, I've tried to keep them separate in the past and generally failed at it. As a general rule though, the icon the thread starts with is indicative of whether he's Hulkling or Teddy. I try to make OOC notes as well, when I remember.
I agree with you about the otherness and his desperation to fit in. I did, however, get crit on this shortly after getting in and had decided to downplay it as much as possible. I'm reconsidering now.
I do try to display the insecurity in small ways though. He wants people to like him and thus tries to present a persona that nobody could not like. unerringly polite and helpful etc which ties in to what his view of a superhero should be. Not to say that he's not naturally polite and helpful but that he tries to emphasize these qualities and not deviate from them.
And he gets upset when in spite of this someone doesn't respond the way he wants (Like when Spirit expressed less than positive views on superheroes.) and trying even harder to impress them.
Also in the way he will alter what he's saying and doing when his friends express displeasure (The Ivy situation in his last post being a prime example. The moment Claire and Robin became upset that Ivy would be upset he immediately changed his tune from destroying the mistletoe to not harming it and tried to make nice with Ivy herself)
You also did hit on a worry of mine that because most of his threads are him in the polite, superheroic capacity that he comes across as flat. I do try to work in his faults (being inconsiderate of other people, disobeying authority to do what he thinks is right, changing himself in attempts to ingratiate himself to people) but I don't find many chances to do this(the last big screw up of his was the prank on Tommy, which he thought was very funny until Tommy got upset. and when he shows off his shifting to people he's usually inconsiderate as well). I'm trying to think of ways to work these things in more frequently though.
If you have any suggestions I'll be happy to listen!
... Hm, I think that covered everything. Is there anything you'd like to hear more in depth reasonings on? I can pull up threads too, if you'd like.
To me, Young Avengers is a story about being an Other. All of the kids are actually Othered in a way unrelated to being a superhero -- the gay teenagers, the drug addict, the girl with family problems, the rape survivor, the bullied kid, the juvenile delinquent, the robot. And in my reading, the main thing really tying these kids together is their need to belong to something. They want to help, yes. They want to make a difference, yes. But they also desperately want to have a group of people in which they fit in unconditionally. Teddy especially has a history of feeling alienated from his age group -- he's gone to great lengths to fit in with people, often employing questionable moral decisions in the process.
It... actually wasn't until he was invited to the Young Avengers that he found a place he could stop hiding! And I kind of feel there's... actually an impression given in canon that it's one of the only places he's stopped hiding. He was ready to come out to his (and Billy's) parents about being a superhero before he was ready to come out about being homosexual -- and with the mutant stigma in the Marvelverse (and that's what he thought he was, at the time), I feel that's pretty heavily indicative of which part of himself he was becoming more comfortable with. Combine this with the fact that there are never really any blatant physical or verbal indications that Billy and Teddy are boyfriends (most of it is quite understated, to be honest), and I get the impression that while he is comfortably homosexual in the book, he is not exactly openly homosexual. So to have him so casual about it in camp makes me do a double-take. I don't think it's something he is ashamed of, don't get me wrong! But I'm genuinely confused at how offhand he can be when I don't really feel he comes off that way in canon.
The second thing is less specific and more a general feeling I get reading his threads. I admit I have only been reading them intermittently, and I get a little confused sometimes as to which are Teddy and which are Hulkling (which I'll touch on in a minute), but I just get the sense that Teddy... is not flawed. At all. He is consistently helpful and agreeable no matter the situation, he always takes the path of least resistance when talking to someone, and he's just generally very... good. And he should be! These are some of his major qualities. He's meant to be heroic! But the things that humanize him seem to be missing. To me, it almost feels like a barebones idea of the character: good guy, helpful, alien, gay. Where is his need to belong, his malleable moral compass? Where is the part of him that would impersonate people back home in order to gain acceptance with his classmates? I haven't seen this side of Teddy in camp at all, and while it's arguable that it would not manifest in the same way (due to, you know, actually finding some of the acceptance he craves), I still believe that level of insecurity would manifest somehow. And I haven't seen it.
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This is getting a little tl;dr (s-sorry), so I'm just going to end it. But I'd really like to hear your views on this stuff since, like I said, it may all be down to interpretation differences. Thanks. ♥
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It should be after my shift today or on Tuesday (my day off).
Thank you for giving this crit though. I've actually been worried about one of the issues you brought up and looking for ways to correct it.
The gay thing is something I can address now, though, because it's a simple explanation.
In canon they did come out in a major way during the special (the one with the interviews) "Why let Northstar have all the fun?"
So being out was part of the superhero persona by the time he came to camp. He wasn't going to deny. Of course he wasn't going to shout from the rooftops either but when it came up he would be truthful.
Then, he gets nothing but very positive responses every time (or at worst "Oh, so you're gay. Ok" responses) in camp. There was only one negative response during an entire year so by now he's very laid back about the whole thing.
In another environment I'd see him being a little more cautious but I can't ever see him being untruthful about it now that he is out.
There's my reasoning!
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He still tries very hard to keep up his secret identity (this I think goes back to the hiding thing. He's not ready to admit to most people what exactly he is) and so tries to keep his personas separate as much as possible. So Teddy is generally only around in the Hospital, very occasionally the mess hall and his cabin. Hulkling is out and about most of the camp and thus tends to be out more places, if you get my meaning. I haven't gotten to do many Teddy threads lately, which is sad because he tries so hard to come across as a normal teenager to other people and tends to fail.
Icons... well, I've tried to keep them separate in the past and generally failed at it. As a general rule though, the icon the thread starts with is indicative of whether he's Hulkling or Teddy. I try to make OOC notes as well, when I remember.
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I do try to display the insecurity in small ways though. He wants people to like him and thus tries to present a persona that nobody could not like. unerringly polite and helpful etc which ties in to what his view of a superhero should be. Not to say that he's not naturally polite and helpful but that he tries to emphasize these qualities and not deviate from them.
And he gets upset when in spite of this someone doesn't respond the way he wants (Like when Spirit expressed less than positive views on superheroes.) and trying even harder to impress them.
Also in the way he will alter what he's saying and doing when his friends express displeasure (The Ivy situation in his last post being a prime example. The moment Claire and Robin became upset that Ivy would be upset he immediately changed his tune from destroying the mistletoe to not harming it and tried to make nice with Ivy herself)
You also did hit on a worry of mine that because most of his threads are him in the polite, superheroic capacity that he comes across as flat. I do try to work in his faults (being inconsiderate of other people, disobeying authority to do what he thinks is right, changing himself in attempts to ingratiate himself to people) but I don't find many chances to do this(the last big screw up of his was the prank on Tommy, which he thought was very funny until Tommy got upset. and when he shows off his shifting to people he's usually inconsiderate as well). I'm trying to think of ways to work these things in more frequently though.
If you have any suggestions I'll be happy to listen!
... Hm, I think that covered everything. Is there anything you'd like to hear more in depth reasonings on? I can pull up threads too, if you'd like.
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