I'm not saying that Freddie should be able to "save" her (as the only person who can really do that is Effy herself). But, if he really understood her, he would have noticed that something was up and it looks like he doesn't actually realize that there's deeper problems there until the whole thing blows up in his face. As far as Effy letting people "take care" of her, she has in the past -- with Tony and with Cook -- when she needed someone the most. She may not ask for help or say when she's feeling lost or depressed, but that doesn't mean that she doesn't want it from the people who care about her.
I'm not sure why we're talking about her parents right now though, since how her parents act towards her and how Freddie acts is not mutually exclusive. Sure, they should be there in this episode to help her through it. But Freddie is the one who claims to be ~in love with her, that should hold some weight as well.
I don't know if Tony or Cook could have prevented it from happening, since that lies with Effy alone, but they probably wouldn't have made her feel ashamed of herself or like she had to change who she was (in S3). That probably would have helped contribute less to her breakdown. That's one of the things I liked about Tony and about Cook too, is that they never tried to change her. There for her? Supported her? Had actual conversations with her? Sure. But made her feel like she needs to ~change her ways~.
As for noticing, they probably would have picked up on it soon. Tony, for sure, because he can see right through her (quote). He understood her even when she barely spoke. And with Cook, when no one else understood her (end of 4x08) he was there and whenever she had a concern (in 3x10) she felt comfortable enough talking to him about it...and they had actual conversation. Sometimes it's easier to prevent going insane when you can actually step outside of your head for a second and talk about things with people.
Who knows, we'll see how Freddie handles it and how their relationship is in 4x05. Perhaps I (along with many) will be surprised. I hope so! I honestly would rather like him.
Yes, Effy is the only person who can save herself. Hmm, I suppose. Cook, Tony and Effy are all basically the same person, though, so naturally they'd understand her actions a bit more. Tony's known her the longest, he's her brother.
I didn't say they were. I was just merely wondering why you're putting all the weight of taking care of Effy/being there/etc. on Freddie when there's more than one source. It does hold weight, but it isn't always up to just one person. Especially not a 17 year old boy.
I don't even think it really lies with her, she's sick. Her brain isn't functioning properly if she's having a balls out nervous breakdown. I don't think Freddie explicitly says she has to change how she is. He just doesn't put up with her shit. He's not forcing her to change, if she tries to change in order to be with him that's still her decision. It's still what she wants to do. If she needs someone who will just go with her every whim then yeah, she needs someone who is indulgent. If this is the case than she should have never chosen Freddie in the first place.
Probably. You don't know that for sure, though. Well, when Cook is concerned. Tony, yes, definitely. Otherwise it would go against everything. Cook and Effy only ended up together in the end of ep 8 because they were both the outcasts of the group. That's natural. She didn't feel comfortable enough telling Cook she didn't want to meet his dad and that it was a bad idea they were even there. She called Freddie for that. It's just how Effy works. Whenever she's with Cook, she's making eyes and such at Freddie and when it's the other way around it's the same thing. I don't think there's really a way of preventing insanity. There's so much more to it than just talking.
Cook, Tony, and Effy are very separate and different people actually. They each also have very different personality types (if you go by the MBTI or any other system). They just have a few certain qualities in common that make them so compatible with one another. But that doesn't mean that's automatically why they understand her better.
I'm concentrating on Freddie's role in this because the episode is focusing on it and he's the one who is completely alone with Effy for this entire time, so obviously he's going to be the one people are focusing on.
He doesn't explicitly say it, but when do people ever do that? I'm not saying she should be with someone who will just go with her every whim (Tony certainly was not the type to be a doormat) but someone who doesn't look down on her or want her to change parts of herself that are essentially who she is as a person. It's one thing to "mature", it's completely another to change who you are and think you have to do that in order to become worthy of being in a relationship with someone. But, I guess, that's all up to people's individual interpretation.
No, no one knows for sure...it's just based on what we've seen (in Canon: on screen) so far, in the past. I doubt it was just because they were both "outcasts" because previously in that episode she had outcasted him too. He could have been angry with her and not understood her at all after that incident. But he didn't and he wasn't. Or perhaps he was, but he knew that that's not what she needed at that moment. She needed some support, and he gave that too her.
She actually did want to meet Cook's dad, she told him that she did and that she would. However, after meeting him she realized that it was a bad situation for Cook and that his dad didn't have his best interests at heart. She tried to tell Cook that they should just leave, but obviously didn't want to explicitly say "you're dad doesn't give a shit about you" because she knew how much that would hurt Cook. When they went to the pub during the day, there were distinct shots of her "observing" (in classic, non-OOC Effy style) how much Cook wanted his dad's approval. That's why she didn't say anything beyond what she said and why she enlisted his friend's to help her help him.
There's not a way to "prevent" insanity, that's correct but there are definitely things that help contribute to pushing someone over the edge. And those things are preventable. And yes, there's more to it than just talking but it does help. Having someone who you can have a conversation with or who will listen to you about something ~deep or even someone who will silently support you without hesitation or doubting your "worth", is helpful. It's a sort of unofficial therapy, you could say. ;)
Well, yeah, but their main aspects are more similiar than they are different. I think it does. If you can't symphatize with what someone is feeling, you can't really understand them. I have that problem a lot between myself and other people. People don't think I have any reason to feel upset about certain things but that's because they don't understand that I can't help but feel that way.
Yes, but that doesn't mean they still shouldn't have been there to begin with and that Freddie does do all he can in the situation as it progresses.
Some do actually come out and tell people what they need to do differently, yes. Tony's her brother, though, so I don't think speaking of them in typical romantic relationships terms really applies. Hmm, yeah, I think Freddie is mostly justified in the times when he doesn't accept her behavior. I guess the only time I really think he could have reacted differently was at the end of ep 8. I still understand why he reacted that way, though. I don't really see how Effy's changed to be with Freddie. She does all the same things. So yeah, disagreeing interpretations.
Yeah, I will give Cook points for that.
Well, yeah, but I don't think she was really keen on the idea from the beginning. It was sort of obvious that Cook's dad wasn't going to be worth the trouble in the end. They all had to learn that for themselves, though. She still had to enlist his friends, though. She couldn't do it alone.
True, but that doesn't necessarily have to be a person. If you're implying that it's Freddie who's pushed her. If he is, he's just one notch in a long line. Eh, I think every situation and every person is different. Talking helps some people and it doesn't help others. I think it depends on how far gone they are already. From what I've experienced anyway. There are people who help themselves and people who resist until it's out of their hands and others have to help them, that's only two categories in many but that's what I've seen.
I'm not sure why we're talking about her parents right now though, since how her parents act towards her and how Freddie acts is not mutually exclusive. Sure, they should be there in this episode to help her through it. But Freddie is the one who claims to be ~in love with her, that should hold some weight as well.
I don't know if Tony or Cook could have prevented it from happening, since that lies with Effy alone, but they probably wouldn't have made her feel ashamed of herself or like she had to change who she was (in S3). That probably would have helped contribute less to her breakdown. That's one of the things I liked about Tony and about Cook too, is that they never tried to change her. There for her? Supported her? Had actual conversations with her? Sure. But made her feel like she needs to ~change her ways~.
As for noticing, they probably would have picked up on it soon. Tony, for sure, because he can see right through her (quote). He understood her even when she barely spoke. And with Cook, when no one else understood her (end of 4x08) he was there and whenever she had a concern (in 3x10) she felt comfortable enough talking to him about it...and they had actual conversation. Sometimes it's easier to prevent going insane when you can actually step outside of your head for a second and talk about things with people.
Who knows, we'll see how Freddie handles it and how their relationship is in 4x05. Perhaps I (along with many) will be surprised. I hope so! I honestly would rather like him.
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I didn't say they were. I was just merely wondering why you're putting all the weight of taking care of Effy/being there/etc. on Freddie when there's more than one source. It does hold weight, but it isn't always up to just one person. Especially not a 17 year old boy.
I don't even think it really lies with her, she's sick. Her brain isn't functioning properly if she's having a balls out nervous breakdown. I don't think Freddie explicitly says she has to change how she is. He just doesn't put up with her shit. He's not forcing her to change, if she tries to change in order to be with him that's still her decision. It's still what she wants to do. If she needs someone who will just go with her every whim then yeah, she needs someone who is indulgent. If this is the case than she should have never chosen Freddie in the first place.
Probably. You don't know that for sure, though. Well, when Cook is concerned. Tony, yes, definitely. Otherwise it would go against everything. Cook and Effy only ended up together in the end of ep 8 because they were both the outcasts of the group. That's natural. She didn't feel comfortable enough telling Cook she didn't want to meet his dad and that it was a bad idea they were even there. She called Freddie for that. It's just how Effy works. Whenever she's with Cook, she's making eyes and such at Freddie and when it's the other way around it's the same thing. I don't think there's really a way of preventing insanity. There's so much more to it than just talking.
Hmm, yeah. I don't know.
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I'm concentrating on Freddie's role in this because the episode is focusing on it and he's the one who is completely alone with Effy for this entire time, so obviously he's going to be the one people are focusing on.
He doesn't explicitly say it, but when do people ever do that? I'm not saying she should be with someone who will just go with her every whim (Tony certainly was not the type to be a doormat) but someone who doesn't look down on her or want her to change parts of herself that are essentially who she is as a person. It's one thing to "mature", it's completely another to change who you are and think you have to do that in order to become worthy of being in a relationship with someone. But, I guess, that's all up to people's individual interpretation.
No, no one knows for sure...it's just based on what we've seen (in Canon: on screen) so far, in the past. I doubt it was just because they were both "outcasts" because previously in that episode she had outcasted him too. He could have been angry with her and not understood her at all after that incident. But he didn't and he wasn't. Or perhaps he was, but he knew that that's not what she needed at that moment. She needed some support, and he gave that too her.
She actually did want to meet Cook's dad, she told him that she did and that she would. However, after meeting him she realized that it was a bad situation for Cook and that his dad didn't have his best interests at heart. She tried to tell Cook that they should just leave, but obviously didn't want to explicitly say "you're dad doesn't give a shit about you" because she knew how much that would hurt Cook. When they went to the pub during the day, there were distinct shots of her "observing" (in classic, non-OOC Effy style) how much Cook wanted his dad's approval. That's why she didn't say anything beyond what she said and why she enlisted his friend's to help her help him.
There's not a way to "prevent" insanity, that's correct but there are definitely things that help contribute to pushing someone over the edge. And those things are preventable. And yes, there's more to it than just talking but it does help. Having someone who you can have a conversation with or who will listen to you about something ~deep or even someone who will silently support you without hesitation or doubting your "worth", is helpful. It's a sort of unofficial therapy, you could say. ;)
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Yes, but that doesn't mean they still shouldn't have been there to begin with and that Freddie does do all he can in the situation as it progresses.
Some do actually come out and tell people what they need to do differently, yes. Tony's her brother, though, so I don't think speaking of them in typical romantic relationships terms really applies. Hmm, yeah, I think Freddie is mostly justified in the times when he doesn't accept her behavior. I guess the only time I really think he could have reacted differently was at the end of ep 8. I still understand why he reacted that way, though. I don't really see how Effy's changed to be with Freddie. She does all the same things. So yeah, disagreeing interpretations.
Yeah, I will give Cook points for that.
Well, yeah, but I don't think she was really keen on the idea from the beginning. It was sort of obvious that Cook's dad wasn't going to be worth the trouble in the end. They all had to learn that for themselves, though. She still had to enlist his friends, though. She couldn't do it alone.
True, but that doesn't necessarily have to be a person. If you're implying that it's Freddie who's pushed her. If he is, he's just one notch in a long line. Eh, I think every situation and every person is different. Talking helps some people and it doesn't help others. I think it depends on how far gone they are already. From what I've experienced anyway. There are people who help themselves and people who resist until it's out of their hands and others have to help them, that's only two categories in many but that's what I've seen.
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