Comments | skinners_box: Facility-wide HMD post

skinners_box

Facility-wide HMD post

May 18, 2009 12:57

Feel free to leave comments in regards to . . . . anything. Concrit that needs to be forwarded to other players, concrit for the mods, concrit on the game, concrit on the Doctor (since that is practically another character). Everything is welcome, blatant flaming will be used to roast marshmallows and make s'mores.

Anon is allowed, IP logging is

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anonymous November 27 2009, 16:58:13 UTC

I've held my tongue long enough, waiting to see if this cast would settle in, but it's been over a month and things have not changed. If anything, they've slipped further into OOC ( ... )

sanctamater November 27 2009, 20:32:26 UTC

Having read the crit, I understand the issue and will work on fixing it, but the problem itself lies in the fact that so far there has been little interaction between Dante and Eva in general, and that Vergil has made much more of an effort to actually interact with his mother. Most of Eva's attention in that regard is because she genuinely is hurt at his (completely in-character, in my opinion) rejection of her; it's her, trying to reach out and constantly being shut down. In Dante's case, there was an initial rejection, but then he embraced her wholly, pretty much-- so she doesn't NEED to chase him down and find out why it is he hates her, as it is in Vergil's case. You have to understand that from Eva's point of view, she came from a point where both boys pretty much adored their mother, into a world where one of them hated her. Of course she's going to wonder why, and try to make amends however she can. It's not a matter of favoritism, it's a matter of wanting to get to the root of things, and by extension, back to where her sons ( ... )

One of many? theotokos November 28 2009, 00:21:11 UTC

Okay, so. Essay time.

In canon, Vergil and Lady only have... one point of interaction. Mission 13 after Dante's fight with Vergil, Lady interjects, solely on what Arkham tells Lady in mission 11. He tells her that he was a possessed by "a devil named Vergil". So relatively speaking, Lady attacks Vergil on a blatant lie, told to her by her father. She believes Vergil, for probably five minutes, that he did force her father into the whole thing -- killing her mother and raising the tower. Though as it's revealed as it's one giant lie, Lady doesn't square off with either twin, they team up against Arkham, with their weapons, after he betrays every last one of them.

Now, in honesty, it doesn't look like Vergil or Dante are truly revealed to be half-human, half-demon to Lady. She doesn't denote that they are and nor is it ever said they are around them. Thus, this proves a few things:

theotokos November 28 2009, 00:21:37 UTC

One - Lady shoots Dante in the head after he dangles her over a roof, so this means she's willing to shoot someone, a human, when feel threatened. Because, let's face it, she did feel threatened. I doubt Lady would ever sink to Arkham's level and kill a human, unless, yes, her life depended on it. She might be filled with hatred and revenge, but she's also morally driven.

Two - since they were half-human, this would undoubtedly present some sort of dilemma. Unfortunately, she'd probably would be compelled enough to go after them, even if they were half. But really, it's the first option - she has no absolute way of knowing they are hybrids.

Now, continuing. After Dante's speech, Lady finally sees Dante's humanity, she also understands the concept that, yes, even some of demonic blood can be human, and humans can be as big as monsters as humans. The whole key of Lady finally surrendering to Dante is his family issue - that is the whole turning point between the two, they have common ground. So by that, she presents him with her ( ... )

Re: One of many? theotokos November 28 2009, 00:22:09 UTC

After that, Lady and Vergil don't have much interaction, at all. Mission 19, he walks by her, without incident, she sees him, he sees here. Nothing. Nada. Zilch. So by now, Lady understands he's not much of an issue anymore, and likely the same with Vergil.

So in the beginning of a_facility, Lady remembers him. She does, in fact, scorn him, for the fact he AIDED her father in helping the tower. It's because she did feel that he was tied to the death of her mother, in some fashion. She's bitter about how he had his role, but for her own personal reasons with Dante. Although, because of how he treated Dante, and Dante, to her, is her best friend, she looks down on him. Something along the lings "even willing to stab his own brother for power". It's not until truth week, she sees more to Vergil than that. So, why does she change?

It's mainly because he tells her, up front, she's nothing like her father. And he finally does show brotherly feelings for Dante. In this position, Lady encourages him to absolve any feelings he has for Dante, because ( ... )

theotokos November 28 2009, 00:22:33 UTC

So because of truth week, she sees more to Vergil than she initially thought. His bizarre quest for his birthright isn't for power to destroy, but to protect. Honestly, Lady isn't truly opposed to Vergil or Dante having that power, but she certainly is opposed to gates to Hell, demons coming in and destroying people and places. Slowly, but surely, she warms up to Vergil, after being exasperated that her talks with Dante seem to not have the affect she wants. She basically turns a new leaf to Vergil the same reason she does with Dante: He's showing humanity by his care for family ( ... )

theotokos November 28 2009, 00:24:57 UTC

It's by her mutual feelings and compassion, and, well, she's still YOUNG, Lady develops a small crush on him. And because of his situation, she grew slowly protective of him. Had the situation be different with Dante, Lady would act the same. She's more open with Vergil about this because Vergil is a lot like her, in some aspects. They disagree with a few things, but by Vergil assuring her that he can find a way home and won't be killing her, they have an alliance. And that alliance is found on getting home, not being stuck, and their concern for Dante ( ... )

done! theotokos November 28 2009, 00:28:44 UTC

So while the concerns are valid, I'm terribly afraid that what CR has been developed has been, well, overlooked. Lady is a ruthless and fiery hunter, yes, but to imply that would basically mean she hates Dante and Vergil still, regardless of their heritage and blood line.

I also have my own personal HMD, IP logging is off, and anonymous is enabled. If anything else is required of me or any further examples, I would be more than happy to oblige. But in the meantime, I feel because of present events, current situations with my canon mates, it is warranted that this is going to happen, especially since I am taking Lady right after Temen-ni-Gru, and her interactions with the boys in canon.

And I hope that suffices!

WHOOPS: Also, in case anyone is curious, I even have a list of links of Lady's current CR, if anyone would like to see how things developed XD;.

Re: done! skinners_box November 28 2009, 00:42:25 UTC

With the complete understanding that the moderators are not overly familiar with this fandom, we are requesting that you do not completely disregard this critique. The relationship between Vergil and Lady was rushed, by all accounts, considering their admitted lack of interaction in canon. Based off of interactions since arrival, it appeared that they were already on a regular speaking basis. The moderators were not aware of all of the canon points between the two, or the lack thereof, and did not know that this was a concern until it was brought up with canon references.

Re: done! theotokos November 28 2009, 01:10:04 UTC

It's understandable if mods are not familiar with canon, however, my only concern is that I do wish that this would be personally brought up in my HMD, so that I, myself, may hash this without with anyone who has concern for my characterization ( ... )

Re: done! theotokos November 28 2009, 01:10:27 UTC

Firstly, again, Lady has not had a relationship with anyone, this open, for a while. There's bound to be confusion and hesitation on her part, because, to be blunt, she's lacking her mother, who she was so blatantly close to in canon, to usher her along. So Lady's left on the fence and fritz ( ... )

Re: done! skinners_box November 28 2009, 01:57:50 UTC

Considering her repeated declarations in game that she trusts only two people, being Vergil and Red Hood, I would not consider her to be receptive to trusting others. Based entirely off of game interaction, it appeared that she and Vergil had some sort of history, while it's turning out that there really was none.

Rushed seems an appropriate term when a situation goes from enemies that barely know each other to attraction and complete loyalty/trust within a month, particularly considering her occupation and his species.

Re: done! theotokos November 28 2009, 02:01:06 UTC

Fair point, but again, her history with Vergil is on the lie Arkham told her, nothing more. There's nothing else beyond that, and she has accused him (ever so passive-aggressively) of being tied to her mother's death. That is all she cared mostly about.

I already explained that Lady doesn't care what his lineage is, it's pretty much obvious she doesn't; if that were the case, she'd be kicking Dante to the curb, too.

Re: done! skinners_box November 28 2009, 02:05:00 UTC

Which reinforces the point that he is a stranger/enemy she barely knows. What she does know is that he has tried to open a gate to hell, and that he has tried to kill his own brother.

In regards to not caring about his lineage, that seems contradictory to her position as a demon hunter that has declared that she still wants to eliminate all demons. Dante is a lone exception to this rule, and his show of compassion would not carry over to Vergil.

Re: done! theotokos November 28 2009, 02:10:04 UTC

I am, once more, going to have to politely disagree, and I feel completely backed into a corner. In which she has gotten to know better, in this game. I am really having a hard time seeing the point you're trying to make, after I've provided cutscenes and lists of links to threads to prove otherwise. He has already said even to her that it's birthright, that his father's power is to protect Dante.

And no, in the end of the game, she says in her narrative piece, that she understands there are demons who are as human as HE is. If this is the case, then she wouldn't take in Trish in the later future. So I kind of don't understand what you're trying to get at. The only time Lady ever jumps the gun in game is when Arkham lies to her, her feelings and emotions are riled up. Lady's not an idiot, she's not going to go in guns ablazing, that would certainly insure her death. And if Vergil was that much of a danger, I do believe he would have killed her by now for the sake of her being her father's daughter.

Re: done! skinners_box November 28 2009, 02:43:19 UTC

The IC-ness of this interaction is still considered questionable. No evidence has given sufficient backing for a relationship as serious as this one (Lady breathing down the neck of people looking funny at Vergil is a serious relationship, official or not) without significant buildup or development. With the appropriate development, it has the potential to be absolutely fascinating, but it has skipped directly to the closest of friends with no solid foundation. The point is not that the relationship itself is impossible. The point is that it was not been developed properly. Half of the IC concerns stem from Vergil's interest in Lady, considering the information available on that character.

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