History not repeating itself

[sistermagpie]

I was reading a discussion on a list about...well, at least what I made it about...was what kids in Snape's class are supposed to "learn" from his bad behavior. Snape seems monstrous to Neville because Neville is young and insecure, but Neville conquers Snape with his Riddikulus spell, making him look silly, and that's what he has to do in his

Comments

[q_spade]

When Dumbledore explains to Harry that the Occlumency lessons failed because he thought Snape could conquer his own demons and he couldn't, the implication is that Harry can hear this because he is a man who can conquer his demons.

...look what happened to the S/J animosity. "Don't let this happen to you"...It hasn't, really, and Snape's a big reason behind that...Snape has also played a big part, sucking the energy out of that relationship [H vs. D] by being himself.

Which sort of gives the lie to Dumbledore's suggestion that Snape hasn't dealt with this particular issue, doesn't it?

Severus does at times seem to be placing himself between Harry and Draco - a most abrasive buffer! ;) It makes sense that he sees the pattern repeating itself, and endeavors to stop it even if it causes him short-term difficulty & angst; it's preferable to the long-term problems that could arise if he doesn't act, and Harry & Draco become Severus & James redux

[romeoambiences]

gives the lie to Dumbledore's suggestion that Snape hasn't dealt with this particular issue, doesn't it?

I'm not sure just how wrong JKR would allow Dumbledore to be.

Severus does at times seem to be placing himself between Harry and Draco - a most abrasive buffer!

But is Snape knowingly doing this? Or is it merely a happenstance of his own emotional issues? (heh...that Harry POV does get in the way) Either way Snape is a wonderful character.

[q_spade]

I'm not sure just how wrong JKR would allow Dumbledore to be.

I suspect at this juncture it's a matter of individual interpretation; looking at HPB via the pensieve memories, and how Dumbledore dealt - or DIDN'T deal - with Tom Riddle, one can only decide Dumbledore's (in)fallibility as best one can until Book 7.

But is Snape knowingly doing this? Or is it merely a happenstance of his own emotional issues?

Personally I suspect he IS aware and consciously working to change things, yet his conscious intent may be superfluous to requirements in the larger scheme of things. As long as the changes indeed happen and affect the big picture, whatever personal effects this has on Severus may well be considered negligible to the overall story arc.

[sistermagpie]

Personally I suspect he IS aware and consciously working to change things, yet his conscious intent may be superfluous to requirements in the larger scheme of things. As long as the changes indeed happen and affect the big picture, whatever personal effects this has on Severus may well be considered negligible to the overall story arc.

Yes, I tend to see it that way too. I think it's clear that Snape *is* trying to change things in his own way. When he jumps on Harry in class the first day, he's making sure that *this* James will have a different experience. Ditto on siding with Draco. It's more interesting because he's not literally dealing with another version of himself, so it's not quite that he's just siding with a younger version of Snape against James. That's what makes his actions have unforseen consequences, but those can still be good ones.

[starpaint]

Which doesn't mean that his motivations are necessarily positive. Although I think it's gotten much harder to work out what his motivations were on that very first day, as both of them changed and their relationship changed, and it's hard not to let that bleed in. I think, though, that back in the day, Snape just wanted to deflate what he saw as Harry's overlarge head, swelled with the pride of being a celebrity and being a Gryffindor and being better than all those Slytherins that the kid already hated. Not that malicious, either. I mean, Snape projects his anger at James onto Harry, who's a kid, and at that point not much like his father, but he's not really being cruelUm. I agree with your original post. But I'm looking at this from a different angle... with a little more focus on Snape. I think the fact that Harry diverts his anger onto Snape has a real problem has a price, and it's that his hate is only redirected. He's learning the pitfalls of unrestrained loathing through experience, but he's not learning how to control himself

[sistermagpie]

Which doesn't mean that his motivations are necessarily positive.

Oh, definitely not. Or that he even had a specific plan other than, "You're not going to have every teacher kissing your arse like your father did!"

...in other words, Harry's learning, but he's still going to end up doing stupid things. As is typical of all people. Which doesn't make it less frustrating.

Yes, I agree--it seems like Harry's problems with Snape may have had the effect on H/D in canon that I mentioned, but that's because the harder reconciliation would have to be between Harry and Snape and that's going to be hard given the way both of them are now. They've never been able to really communicate--not once in all these years, except through the HBP book.

[merrymelody]

Snape wanted to deflate what he saw as Harry's overlarge head, swelled with the pride of being a celebrity and being a Gryffindor and being better than all those Slytherins that the kid already hated.What's funny is that Snape's almost encouraged Harry to become what he mistook him for originally (of course, so have circumstances and many others, including the most strong influence, Dumbledore