I'm in the middle of a one-year program to be a certified hypnotherapist, as part of the chaplain work I do with my corporation. And while I'm learning a lot (a LOT!) I'm mostly working on defining how I want to come at this
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I have always though of shadow as something accessible to us, but rejected, pushed into the darkness, turned away from. And soul loss as a part of us that is - lost, so lost we don't even know we miss it. I think of shadow as something like a locked box that holds explosive, hidden power that some part of me is aware of, but that much of me doesn't feel safe to let surface. I think of soul loss as something that was done more through a kind of violence to the human spirit, that forced a possibly very positive part of me (my ability to trust, or my ability to speak) into a whole other realm, where it resides, now, unless I seek it out in its home and urge it to return to me.
I would be way interested in how you see the above - do you see the two things as the same? To me, one is perceived as more negative, darker, a part of myself that much of me doesn't want, but that I work to face for the power and authenticity that will give me. The other (soul loss) is a gentler, positive thing lost to me.
Re: the projection While I know this is true, I have made a choice to not let my relationships come from that place (understanding that you weren't at all suggesting I should). I've worked with this to grow beyond some of the challenges it's brought, and I'm not fully beyond it. But two things have made me have to back away from it 1. I wasn't getting any joy out of my relationships, with it in the forefront 2. I was unable to function as a facilitator in groups because I was so caught up in where my own projection was kicking in that I couldn't make good decisions for what was happening to the group when conflict came up
I am still very much working with issues around projections, though, when I have a really strong reaction (positive or negative) to someone; then red flags go up, and I do go into that work.
What you say about being vulnerable is especially useful to me in trying to sort through this. So much so that I don't know, yet, how to respond to it. One of the things I think I bring best, as a priestess, is vulnerability, but that vulnerability is always around where I see myself as trying, and failing. It is never in the realm of letting someone do anything for me. So I think I want to start thinking of what it means to be vulnerable in THAT way.
I find the thought of it frightening, and truly something to be very cautious with, because, to me, the subconscious is the most sacred thing I know. It is THE thing, to me, the element that connects me directly to the sacred. I think every good, healing, peace-bringing thing I am comes from that place. My instinct strongly urges me to never turn it over completely to anyone. Even in trance, shining body (my conscious mind) is engaged to some extent.
While letting someone journey for me isn't exactly letting them muck around in my subconscious, a part of me still says: why would I ask someone else to do for me what I can do for myself? Has it been your experience that those who journey for you did what you could not do?
I agree it takes great strength to allow yourself to be vulnerable to another. I'm not sure that is a strength I have, or not fully. I will think more on that - especially since, when I'm trancing others, others may make themselves more vulnerable to me than I'm willing to be myself -
Re: The Soulshauna_auraMarch 18 2009, 20:16:15 UTC
Aha, shadows. I'm having a "duh" moment, as I hadn't connected the soul retrieval work with shadow work.
I've actually been pheening to do some Jungian therapy--both for myself to go through the process of integrating my shadows, but also to learn that process and be able to better represent it in rituals, since that's a lot of what comes out of ritual work anyways. At least, the personal growth stuff that I do :D
My understanding of my shadows is, they're the parts of myself I locked up in my psychic basement because I decided they were unacceptable to society. "If I'm like ____, people won't like me, so I shouldn't be like that." Except that I am like that, and the more I deny it, the worse the psychological gap becomes. The shadows suck power/vitality from me, not because they are bad, but because I'm trying to divorce pieces of myself from me.
And the rub is, some of these parts of myself may not be bad parts at all, just things I am in denial about. One I worked with a bit in the past years was my sexual drive--I was ashamed for wanting sex, for being a sexual creature. I'd get into denial world, try to be "Shauna who is tough and in control and doesn't need sex to be happy," and eventually I'd snap and have bonk someone when I got too lonely, then loathe myself for it after.
I think the shadow process is almost the same as the process of when we lose a part of our soul that was good. In fact, I think they may sit far closer than I'd ever thought before. A shadow is something I reject from myself, usually because someone told me that part of me was bad (whether it was a parent, friend, or TV ad).
I think a "positive" soul loss is when someone does something to me, and I lose a piece of me that I wanted to keep. I'm trying to think of a piece of my soul that I didn't reject as a shadow, that I wanted to keep but the actions of another sent it away. Perhaps when I stopped laughing in school because all the kids made me so sad. I used to like to have fun as a kid, but somewhere in there I stopped smiling, laughing, or being as sunshiney.
My leadership ability was sent away by my mom who constantly made fun of me for being the "director." But that was a shadow too--I saw my being a leader as a bad thing, a thing to be ashamed of. Well--being a bossy 8 year old probably wasn't so hot, but I threw away the leadership ability along with the bossiness.
Hmmm....I will have to think on this more. Good stuff :D
I've been thinking over emergingcrone's take on shadow and soul loss being so closely related, but I can't get there. Like you, to me, they are two different things. Shadow - that's willful, a willfull pushing away of what we can't cope with, and it's just about us - not about another.
Soul loss - I guess that's willfull in a way, too. But I agree with what Sandra Ingerman says about it - we can't incorporate it because we often don't know it exists. (and yeah, I can see where that applies to shadow, too)
I think I can't reconcile because going after my shadow seems like work I need to do or else I'm weak with myself - I'm puny. I don't have enough courage.
Soul retrieval seems like it needs to be a more gentle process. The part that fled, fled because it was good, needed, but didn't feel safe.
And I say that and realize - that's true of shadow too. Maybe when I approach retrieving shadow, I need to be more gentle as well.
Well - for now, I'm going after soul retrieval as a shaman. And going after shadow as a warrior. But I'm still thinking ...
"While letting someone journey for me isn't exactly letting them muck around in my subconscious, a part of me still says: why would I ask someone else to do for me what I can do for myself? Has it been your experience that those who journey for you did what you could not do?"
In more traditional views the journey is hazardous, not something untrained people can undertake. If someone has the chops to make the journey (or if the journey isn't hazardous), then by all means help them do it in person. But I think there are situations where someone might not be ready to go themselves and you need to face the journey on their behalf.
I have always though of shadow as something accessible to us, but rejected, pushed into the darkness, turned away from. And soul loss as a part of us that is - lost, so lost we don't even know we miss it. I think of shadow as something like a locked box that holds explosive, hidden power that some part of me is aware of, but that much of me doesn't feel safe to let surface. I think of soul loss as something that was done more through a kind of violence to the human spirit, that forced a possibly very positive part of me (my ability to trust, or my ability to speak) into a whole other realm, where it resides, now, unless I seek it out in its home and urge it to return to me.
I would be way interested in how you see the above - do you see the two things as the same? To me, one is perceived as more negative, darker, a part of myself that much of me doesn't want, but that I work to face for the power and authenticity that will give me. The other (soul loss) is a gentler, positive thing lost to me.
Re: the projection
While I know this is true, I have made a choice to not let my relationships come from that place (understanding that you weren't at all suggesting I should). I've worked with this to grow beyond some of the challenges it's brought, and I'm not fully beyond it. But two things have made me have to back away from it
1. I wasn't getting any joy out of my relationships, with it in the forefront
2. I was unable to function as a facilitator in groups because I was so caught up in where my own projection was kicking in that I couldn't make good decisions for what was happening to the group when conflict came up
I am still very much working with issues around projections, though, when I have a really strong reaction (positive or negative) to someone; then red flags go up, and I do go into that work.
What you say about being vulnerable is especially useful to me in trying to sort through this. So much so that I don't know, yet, how to respond to it. One of the things I think I bring best, as a priestess, is vulnerability, but that vulnerability is always around where I see myself as trying, and failing. It is never in the realm of letting someone do anything for me. So I think I want to start thinking of what it means to be vulnerable in THAT way.
I find the thought of it frightening, and truly something to be very cautious with, because, to me, the subconscious is the most sacred thing I know. It is THE thing, to me, the element that connects me directly to the sacred. I think every good, healing, peace-bringing thing I am comes from that place. My instinct strongly urges me to never turn it over completely to anyone. Even in trance, shining body (my conscious mind) is engaged to some extent.
While letting someone journey for me isn't exactly letting them muck around in my subconscious, a part of me still says: why would I ask someone else to do for me what I can do for myself? Has it been your experience that those who journey for you did what you could not do?
I agree it takes great strength to allow yourself to be vulnerable to another. I'm not sure that is a strength I have, or not fully. I will think more on that - especially since, when I'm trancing others, others may make themselves more vulnerable to me than I'm willing to be myself -
Reply
I've actually been pheening to do some Jungian therapy--both for myself to go through the process of integrating my shadows, but also to learn that process and be able to better represent it in rituals, since that's a lot of what comes out of ritual work anyways. At least, the personal growth stuff that I do :D
My understanding of my shadows is, they're the parts of myself I locked up in my psychic basement because I decided they were unacceptable to society. "If I'm like ____, people won't like me, so I shouldn't be like that." Except that I am like that, and the more I deny it, the worse the psychological gap becomes. The shadows suck power/vitality from me, not because they are bad, but because I'm trying to divorce pieces of myself from me.
And the rub is, some of these parts of myself may not be bad parts at all, just things I am in denial about. One I worked with a bit in the past years was my sexual drive--I was ashamed for wanting sex, for being a sexual creature. I'd get into denial world, try to be "Shauna who is tough and in control and doesn't need sex to be happy," and eventually I'd snap and have bonk someone when I got too lonely, then loathe myself for it after.
I think the shadow process is almost the same as the process of when we lose a part of our soul that was good. In fact, I think they may sit far closer than I'd ever thought before. A shadow is something I reject from myself, usually because someone told me that part of me was bad (whether it was a parent, friend, or TV ad).
I think a "positive" soul loss is when someone does something to me, and I lose a piece of me that I wanted to keep. I'm trying to think of a piece of my soul that I didn't reject as a shadow, that I wanted to keep but the actions of another sent it away. Perhaps when I stopped laughing in school because all the kids made me so sad. I used to like to have fun as a kid, but somewhere in there I stopped smiling, laughing, or being as sunshiney.
My leadership ability was sent away by my mom who constantly made fun of me for being the "director." But that was a shadow too--I saw my being a leader as a bad thing, a thing to be ashamed of. Well--being a bossy 8 year old probably wasn't so hot, but I threw away the leadership ability along with the bossiness.
Hmmm....I will have to think on this more. Good stuff :D
Reply
Soul loss - I guess that's willfull in a way, too. But I agree with what Sandra Ingerman says about it - we can't incorporate it because we often don't know it exists. (and yeah, I can see where that applies to shadow, too)
I think I can't reconcile because going after my shadow seems like work I need to do or else I'm weak with myself - I'm puny. I don't have enough courage.
Soul retrieval seems like it needs to be a more gentle process. The part that fled, fled because it was good, needed, but didn't feel safe.
And I say that and realize - that's true of shadow too. Maybe when I approach retrieving shadow, I need to be more gentle as well.
Well - for now, I'm going after soul retrieval as a shaman. And going after shadow as a warrior. But I'm still thinking ...
Reply
In more traditional views the journey is hazardous, not something untrained people can undertake. If someone has the chops to make the journey (or if the journey isn't hazardous), then by all means help them do it in person. But I think there are situations where someone might not be ready to go themselves and you need to face the journey on their behalf.
Reply
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