Re: Most definitely!
anonymous
February 7 2005, 19:19:19 UTC
Just curious, but what else are you looking forward to reading in this pairing. I think with their contrasting coloring they would look beautiful together, and they are just as much opposites in temperment ice and fire. There's also a potential for dry, witty dialog, which I cannot resist. Sirius is always hilarious in the books when he wants to be, and I'm sure Lucius could be in the right circumstances. Anyway, their contrasts spell conflict, the essence of great stories.
Even their similarities could cause conflict.
Both are staunchly loyal to their respective masters, but their masters' values are polar opposites. One is about striving (if not always achieving) for fairness, and doing the right thing, even if it's not easy and hurts you. The other is about getting what you and yours want, even if it hurts others.
Both have a cruel streak.
Sirius's capacity for cruelty is tempered with an even greater capacity to feel love, passion, and a desire to do the right thing. He may not always due to: 1. his horrendous family upbringing 2. torturous imprisonment and concommitant emotional instability and ill health 3. being on the run from the law 4. being 12 years out of practice with magic. Still, he does try, feels ashamed when he fails. He's human, and he does have his blind spots, Snape and Kreacher, but he tries. He's willing to, and does, suffer greatly for trying to do the right thing. I get the feeling Malfoy doesn't think about doing the right thing. He KNOWS what it is. It's all about pureblood family values and power, and he doesn't think about it further than that. His cruelty is calculating and often impersonal. It is abstract in that he can be cruel to "mudbloods", muggles, and wizards who've never hurt him just for the honor of pureblood principles. His cruelty really has few leashes upon it, save toward a few people he considers his equal or betters.
Just think of how much a threat to Malfoy's worldview Sirius would be. Sirius is just as threatening to Malfoy's sexuality if Malfoy perceives himself as straight, with Sirius teasing him sexually--even better if Sirius doesn't realize he's doing it.
Just think how very vulnerable Sirius is, no matter how brilliant Sirius is, because he's not, and could never be, as ruthlessly cold as Malfoy, and because deep down he wants to belong and needs love. Just think how easily and recklessly he could be seduced or dared into bed.
All that said, I'd love it if someone could find an underlying sense of values (positive ones) that both share that could draw these two together into something real and meaningful. Maybe a third master?
Re: Most definitely!halonineFebruary 8 2005, 08:47:25 UTC
Hmmm...
Where could this pairing go...
I like all of your ideas. The different coloring is definitely good for this pair, and also their common mean streaks. I guess Sirius is impulsive and immature sometimes... in the books he's incredibly un-scarred from being in Azkaban, which I wish were different, but I suppose he couldn't be the same character if J.K. Rowling had gone into that. A Sirius whose experience in Azkaban had left him shaken and doubting everything he believed could be attracted to Lucius, since Lucius thinks he knows all the answers. Maybe through that relationship Lucius could even redeem himself somehow.
I have a soft spot for Lucius fics where he acts mean but is actually a total wreck inside. Sirius could swoop in and save Lucius in some dramatic way.
In the confusion, Lucius's black ribbon would slip off his flaxen hair...
Muhahahahaha!
All that said, I'd love it if someone could find an underlying sense of values (positive ones) that both share that could draw these two together into something real and meaningful. Maybe a third master?
Hmmm, that would be great, but I'm having a hard time thinking of anything positive they might share. There's not much positive about Lucius (canon Lucius) at all!
I'm trying to think of a third master scenario, but they're all really perverse :(
Re: Most definitely!
anonymous
February 8 2005, 18:07:41 UTC
in the books he's incredibly un-scarred from being in Azkaban, which I wish were different, but I suppose he couldn't be the same character if J.K. Rowling had gone into that. A Sirius whose experience in Azkaban had left him shaken and doubting everything he believed could be attracted to Lucius, since Lucius thinks he knows all the answers. Maybe through that relationship Lucius could even redeem himself somehow.
Thanks for saying you like my ideas. I like yours as well, lol. I want to hear all about the perverse third master. Pleeaaaassssse!
I think you have the Shaken and Stirred Sirius post Azkaban you want.
Here's my evidence: Sirius drinks. A lot. Why? To numb himself. He hides himself away in a litter ridden room with his pet hippogriff drinking. He's often careless of his grooming. These are signs he's deeply depressed despite all the alcohol he consumes, but why?
What would Sirius do if there was no alcohol to numb him? What can't he face? Yes, Azkaban was horrible, but what REALLY hurts is that he betrayed as much as James Potter was, and I imagine he's trying hard not to realize it. Look what he gave up for The Light who turned on him!
Yes, he laughed when he was captured, but I see that as hysteria. People laugh instead of crying under stress. Sirius is highly emotional, but he doesn't feel comfortable showing emotions other than happiness or anger to the general public. He's comfortable showing his affection, but I don't think he's comfortable showing he's hurt or weak in any way.
Sirius lashes back instead of showing he's hurt. This is a guy who can't bring himself to cry, or even admit he's been hurt. Look how he treats Harry when Harry quite reasonably tells Sirius not to follow him so he won't get caught. Sirius feels rejected, but he reacts by trying to make HARRY feel rejected as well by telling Harry he's not as much like his dad as he thought. The only time Sirius is happy is living in his happy past(even Xmas) or through Harry, who is a bit of the happy past that survived.
I can see Lucius playing on all of that. He's older than Sirius, and knew Sirius before Sirius developed his shields against the world. He's bright. He's opportunistic. He's powerful in all senses of the word. He's got unlimited financial resources. What couldn't he do for Sirius or to him?
Take away Sirius's emotional crutches of alcohol, Harry, Remus, and to a lesser extent the rest of the Order, and a very patient Lucius could weasel his way under a captive Sirius's defenses quite nicely as long as he didn't try to get him to support Voldemort.
Then, in turn, Sirius could get under Lucius's defenses too, before Lucius even realized what was going on. He'd be too busy patting himself on the back for getting under Sirius's Sirius can be very charming when he wants to be. They could take turns being wrecked! LOL! I'm a sucker for both of them letting their hair down. I'm also a sucker for someone actually giving Sirius healing potions to help him get over Azkaban's ill effects. His teeth could get whitened, his body strengthened, his face back to normal, etc. That could be one way Lucius gets to Sirius...because none of his friends did this.
Hmmm, that would be great, but I'm having a hard time thinking of anything positive they might share. There's not much positive about Lucius (canon Lucius) at all!
***********An event which makes Lucius question his loyalties? I can think of several. I think evil is a failure of the imagination, the capacity for emotion, and the societal systems. I'd work from that.
As for the third master, I like someone with an ideology that would go against Evil!Voldemort and Is He Really That Good?Dumbledore. I'm fond of GreyLady!RightsForAll!Hermione or Andromeda for that, but an OC or Harry is okay. They don't have to have a sexual relationship with that master or mistress. Just believe and come together.
Here's something for perverse: Leather!Remus or Leather!Kingsley would do quite nicely, lol. I can see either trying to tear Sub!Sirius and Sub!Lucius down to rebuild them to his specs all the while enjoying the scenery and sex. Snape wouldn't work for me. He'd have to be in there with Sirius and Lucius getting rebuilt, lol.
Re: Most definitely!halonineFebruary 9 2005, 07:21:09 UTC
Those are all good points! Especially about the nature of evil. I agree.
I forgot about that thing that happened between Sirius and Harry. That was really petty and definitely not a thing any adult should say to a child, or anyone.
I vote for Leather!Kingsley. Snape doesn't work for me, either. He's not a leader type. He's a behind-the-scenes type. :)
Welp, how about Dumbledore for a third master? If anyone could think of a way to get under Lucius's defenses, it's gotta be him. Or, Narcissa? Hopefully Narcissa-gone-good (I always like Good to win in the end). Or Bellatrix... she could be holding them hostage, and they could develop the Stockholm syndrome, where captives sympathize with their captors. Some of the other Death Eaters might also be good for that, but Bellatrix is the craziest, so she could just torment them to no purpose, and leave them to figure things out on their own. And Lucius could turn good, LOL!
Even their similarities could cause conflict.
Both are staunchly loyal to their respective masters, but their masters' values are polar opposites. One is about striving (if not always achieving) for fairness, and doing the right thing, even if it's not easy and hurts you. The other is about getting what you and yours want, even if it hurts others.
Both have a cruel streak.
Sirius's capacity for cruelty is tempered with an even greater capacity to feel love, passion, and a desire to do the right thing. He may not always due to: 1. his horrendous family upbringing 2. torturous imprisonment and concommitant emotional instability and ill health 3. being on the run from the law 4. being 12 years out of practice with magic. Still, he does try, feels ashamed when he fails. He's human, and he does have his blind spots, Snape and Kreacher, but he tries. He's willing to, and does, suffer greatly for trying to do the right thing. I get the feeling Malfoy doesn't think about doing the right thing. He KNOWS what it is. It's all about pureblood family values and power, and he doesn't think about it further than that. His cruelty is calculating and often impersonal. It is abstract in that he can be cruel to "mudbloods", muggles, and wizards who've never hurt him just for the honor of pureblood principles. His cruelty really has few leashes upon it, save toward a few people he considers his equal or betters.
Just think of how much a threat to Malfoy's worldview Sirius would be. Sirius is just as threatening to Malfoy's sexuality if Malfoy perceives himself as straight, with Sirius teasing him sexually--even better if Sirius doesn't realize he's doing it.
Just think how very vulnerable Sirius is, no matter how brilliant Sirius is, because he's not, and could never be, as ruthlessly cold as Malfoy, and because deep down he wants to belong and needs love. Just think how easily and recklessly he could be seduced or dared into bed.
All that said, I'd love it if someone could find an underlying sense of values (positive ones) that both share that could draw these two together into something real and meaningful. Maybe a third master?
Reply
Where could this pairing go...
I like all of your ideas. The different coloring is definitely good for this pair, and also their common mean streaks. I guess Sirius is impulsive and immature sometimes... in the books he's incredibly un-scarred from being in Azkaban, which I wish were different, but I suppose he couldn't be the same character if J.K. Rowling had gone into that. A Sirius whose experience in Azkaban had left him shaken and doubting everything he believed could be attracted to Lucius, since Lucius thinks he knows all the answers. Maybe through that relationship Lucius could even redeem himself somehow.
I have a soft spot for Lucius fics where he acts mean but is actually a total wreck inside. Sirius could swoop in and save Lucius in some dramatic way.
In the confusion, Lucius's black ribbon would slip off his flaxen hair...
Muhahahahaha!
All that said, I'd love it if someone could find an underlying sense of values (positive ones) that both share that could draw these two together into something real and meaningful. Maybe a third master?
Hmmm, that would be great, but I'm having a hard time thinking of anything positive they might share. There's not much positive about Lucius (canon Lucius) at all!
I'm trying to think of a third master scenario, but they're all really perverse :(
Reply
Thanks for saying you like my ideas. I like yours as well, lol. I want to hear all about the perverse third master. Pleeaaaassssse!
I think you have the Shaken and Stirred Sirius post Azkaban you want.
Here's my evidence: Sirius drinks. A lot. Why? To numb himself. He hides himself away in a litter ridden room with his pet hippogriff drinking. He's often careless of his grooming. These are signs he's deeply depressed despite all the alcohol he consumes, but why?
What would Sirius do if there was no alcohol to numb him? What can't he face? Yes, Azkaban was horrible, but what REALLY hurts is that he betrayed as much as James Potter was, and I imagine he's trying hard not to realize it. Look what he gave up for The Light who turned on him!
Yes, he laughed when he was captured, but I see that as hysteria. People laugh instead of crying under stress. Sirius is highly emotional, but he doesn't feel comfortable showing emotions other than happiness or anger to the general public. He's comfortable showing his affection, but I don't think he's comfortable showing he's hurt or weak in any way.
Sirius lashes back instead of showing he's hurt. This is a guy who can't bring himself to cry, or even admit he's been hurt. Look how he treats Harry when Harry quite reasonably tells Sirius not to follow him so he won't get caught. Sirius feels rejected, but he reacts by trying to make HARRY feel rejected as well by telling Harry he's not as much like his dad as he thought. The only time Sirius is happy is living in his happy past(even Xmas) or through Harry, who is a bit of the happy past that survived.
I can see Lucius playing on all of that. He's older than Sirius, and knew Sirius before Sirius developed his shields against the world. He's bright. He's opportunistic. He's powerful in all senses of the word. He's got unlimited financial resources. What couldn't he do for Sirius or to him?
Take away Sirius's emotional crutches of alcohol, Harry, Remus, and to a lesser extent the rest of the Order, and a very patient Lucius could weasel his way under a captive Sirius's defenses quite nicely as long as he didn't try to get him to support Voldemort.
Then, in turn, Sirius could get under Lucius's defenses too, before Lucius even realized what was going on. He'd be too busy patting himself on the back for getting under Sirius's Sirius can be very charming when he wants to be. They could take turns being wrecked! LOL! I'm a sucker for both of them letting their hair down. I'm also a sucker for someone actually giving Sirius healing potions to help him get over Azkaban's ill effects. His teeth could get whitened, his body strengthened, his face back to normal, etc. That could be one way Lucius gets to Sirius...because none of his friends did this.
Hmmm, that would be great, but I'm having a hard time thinking of anything positive they might share. There's not much positive about Lucius (canon Lucius) at all!
***********An event which makes Lucius question his loyalties? I can think of several. I think evil is a failure of the imagination, the capacity for emotion, and the societal systems. I'd work from that.
As for the third master, I like someone with an ideology that would go against Evil!Voldemort and Is He Really That Good?Dumbledore. I'm fond of GreyLady!RightsForAll!Hermione or Andromeda for that, but an OC or Harry is okay. They don't have to have a sexual relationship with that master or mistress. Just believe and come together.
Here's something for perverse: Leather!Remus or Leather!Kingsley would do quite nicely, lol. I can see either trying to tear Sub!Sirius and Sub!Lucius down to rebuild them to his specs all the while enjoying the scenery and sex. Snape wouldn't work for me. He'd have to be in there with Sirius and Lucius getting rebuilt, lol.
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I forgot about that thing that happened between Sirius and Harry. That was really petty and definitely not a thing any adult should say to a child, or anyone.
I vote for Leather!Kingsley. Snape doesn't work for me, either. He's not a leader type. He's a behind-the-scenes type. :)
Welp, how about Dumbledore for a third master? If anyone could think of a way to get under Lucius's defenses, it's gotta be him. Or, Narcissa? Hopefully Narcissa-gone-good (I always like Good to win in the end). Or Bellatrix... she could be holding them hostage, and they could develop the Stockholm syndrome, where captives sympathize with their captors. Some of the other Death Eaters might also be good for that, but Bellatrix is the craziest, so she could just torment them to no purpose, and leave them to figure things out on their own. And Lucius could turn good, LOL!
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