Of increasingly complicated issues.
Over a late dinner last night with the uni gals, two interesting questions came about and set me thinking:
1. What constitutes as 'dating'?
2. Does the term "attractive" mean something when used on friends?
1) What constitutes as 'dating'?
To cut the story short, my wonderful friends started bombarding me with questions the moment we met because of two meet-ups I had with a male friend of ours last week, whom they have been trying to set me up with since last year at another common friend's wedding. They said that we were out on two dates and I violently protested because it was genuinely not a date - the first meet-up was because I had tickets to a concert and was thinking of who I could ask along who can, a) appreciate the concert and b) comes in a single entity. After looking through the list of my closest friends, some of which fit only one out of the two criterias, I decided to expand my options and that was when i thought of this male friend, D, whom I also have not met up for some time due to my insane work schedule. And with that, I decided to take a chance and see if he was interested and also free to go for it (the concert was the next day, so his availability is also in doubt), and he was, so we went for the concert.
The second time that we met was a purely last-minute, impromptu incident on the Sunday that I was craving for a particular flavour of ice-cream at this particular ice-cream parlour near my place. It just so happened that he also wanted to pass me the photos taken for the concert so we decided to might as well meet up for a quick ice-cream session too.
And that was it.
But my two girlfriends said that those were still considered 'dates' because it was just the two of us. However, I tried my best to explain to them (and they teased me for being so defensive about it - bah!) that those were not dates, because it was just two friends meeting to catch up and enjoy certain pleasures of life such as music and ice-cream. Then we started having a rather intense discussion about what dating means, and one of them, P, brought up an incident of two friends of hers who had a minor 'episode' because the guy felt that the girl had been leading him on because they had been going out together alone for a few times but the girl had not seem to reciprocate anything.
That shocked me slightly, because seriously, when did relationships (or friendships, for that matter) get so complicated?? Can't two single people of the opposite gender meet up regularly as friends? Is there always a need to pause and think what your actions may be showing to the other party, when things can be just as simple as a meet-up with a friend?
Perhaps it is just me, and my extremely rational, logical and "if you never say, I'll take it that it is nothing" way of thinking. Many friends have commented and gave feedback that I am overly rational and logical when it comes to romantic relationships, but I think it is absolutely essential to make things crystal clear if any party is considering 'taking things up to the next level' - for the sake of both parties.
Because to me, the term 'dating' only applies when both people are aware and acknowledge the romantic feelings from either one or both parties (or at least feelings of a certain level of romantic attraction towards each other) and start hanging out more often, in private as well as in group settings, to assess the suitability of each other as potential life partners. If nothing has been said, mentioned, shown or indicated, it does not constitute as 'dating'.
Having said that, I do understand that definitions of such terms can be subjective. Yet, that is what makes it all the more puzzling (and somewhat scary), because after hearing P's friends' incident, it made me realize how subjectivity can really make or break relationships that you have with people around you.
Hmph. Wahlaus, honestly why do things get more complicated with age??
2) 'Attractive'
In the midst of our discussion, we came to the term 'attractiveness' or 'attraction'. They asked me if I remotely think or feel that D is attractive now (because many years ago, when I was younger, more gullible and more open towards such matters, I did think that D, along with a few more other guys whom I had known during that orientation camp, was quite 'attractive'. Or to be more exact, I had said that they were some of the few guys whom I would like to know more and better as friends, like to hang out with and then 'see how things progress'). When they asked me that last night, I did give much thought to it and said "no" because I knew they were referring to an attraction on a romantic level.
However, I feel that if a guy had once been attractive to you (in a purely platonic way, maybe because the guy IS good-looking, charming, or simply appeals to you in a certain way), it is very difficult to get rid of that attraction regardless of how much time has passed. As we had studied back in Social Psych last time, a certain level of attraction does have to exist, even amongst friends. But this level of attraction, or the attractive factor, may diminish over time due to other external stimulus (i.e. more attractive people etc) but it would unlikely extinguish to nothing because being humans, we tend to remember the good things, and that includes the factor of attraction or attractiveness of people who had once been in your lives - with the occasional exceptions of even stronger negative stimulus from that particular person, of course.
Having said that, you know how certain people can evoke certain feelings/emotions in you e.g. comfort, because he/she has always been there for you when you are in the pits; being doted on, because he/she always takes care of you in small gestures that you will always remember forever regardless how long ago that had been etc? Don't those feelings/emotions count as 'attractiveness' too? If so, I'll be in quite a bit of 'trouble' because the list would probably be more than what I can count on one hand :P
To end off this episode, I think I can come to a conclusion:
I am rational, a little overly rational at that. :P Oops. Hahaha!
***
Although this is a rather long post, but I have to add on one last thing before signing off:
Am I that open a book, or have my thoughts/feelings written on my face? It is very scary how a particular person (or perhaps two) whom you met up briefly for 30 minutes in a group can read your thoughts without you saying or doing anything, even when you probably spoke to him for less than 5 minutes.
I was quite shocked when I woke up this afternoon to that message from you. How did you know? And yet after the shock, I was quite touched because there was no hint of blame, anger or sadness in your message despite you seemingly knowing the reason why. Maybe I am being too sensitive, but it felt as though you have known it for some time, just that you never said it so explicitly until this message. Then I started to feel guilty and upset with myself for this, for everything. Especially more so for the fact that you were not angry with me at all for my behaviour and thoughts, but on the other hand showing in your unorthodox way that you still care.
I'm sorry. And thank you. :)
1. What constitutes as 'dating'?
2. Does the term "attractive" mean something when used on friends?
1) What constitutes as 'dating'?
To cut the story short, my wonderful friends started bombarding me with questions the moment we met because of two meet-ups I had with a male friend of ours last week, whom they have been trying to set me up with since last year at another common friend's wedding. They said that we were out on two dates and I violently protested because it was genuinely not a date - the first meet-up was because I had tickets to a concert and was thinking of who I could ask along who can, a) appreciate the concert and b) comes in a single entity. After looking through the list of my closest friends, some of which fit only one out of the two criterias, I decided to expand my options and that was when i thought of this male friend, D, whom I also have not met up for some time due to my insane work schedule. And with that, I decided to take a chance and see if he was interested and also free to go for it (the concert was the next day, so his availability is also in doubt), and he was, so we went for the concert.
The second time that we met was a purely last-minute, impromptu incident on the Sunday that I was craving for a particular flavour of ice-cream at this particular ice-cream parlour near my place. It just so happened that he also wanted to pass me the photos taken for the concert so we decided to might as well meet up for a quick ice-cream session too.
And that was it.
But my two girlfriends said that those were still considered 'dates' because it was just the two of us. However, I tried my best to explain to them (and they teased me for being so defensive about it - bah!) that those were not dates, because it was just two friends meeting to catch up and enjoy certain pleasures of life such as music and ice-cream. Then we started having a rather intense discussion about what dating means, and one of them, P, brought up an incident of two friends of hers who had a minor 'episode' because the guy felt that the girl had been leading him on because they had been going out together alone for a few times but the girl had not seem to reciprocate anything.
That shocked me slightly, because seriously, when did relationships (or friendships, for that matter) get so complicated?? Can't two single people of the opposite gender meet up regularly as friends? Is there always a need to pause and think what your actions may be showing to the other party, when things can be just as simple as a meet-up with a friend?
Perhaps it is just me, and my extremely rational, logical and "if you never say, I'll take it that it is nothing" way of thinking. Many friends have commented and gave feedback that I am overly rational and logical when it comes to romantic relationships, but I think it is absolutely essential to make things crystal clear if any party is considering 'taking things up to the next level' - for the sake of both parties.
Because to me, the term 'dating' only applies when both people are aware and acknowledge the romantic feelings from either one or both parties (or at least feelings of a certain level of romantic attraction towards each other) and start hanging out more often, in private as well as in group settings, to assess the suitability of each other as potential life partners. If nothing has been said, mentioned, shown or indicated, it does not constitute as 'dating'.
Having said that, I do understand that definitions of such terms can be subjective. Yet, that is what makes it all the more puzzling (and somewhat scary), because after hearing P's friends' incident, it made me realize how subjectivity can really make or break relationships that you have with people around you.
Hmph. Wahlaus, honestly why do things get more complicated with age??
2) 'Attractive'
In the midst of our discussion, we came to the term 'attractiveness' or 'attraction'. They asked me if I remotely think or feel that D is attractive now (because many years ago, when I was younger, more gullible and more open towards such matters, I did think that D, along with a few more other guys whom I had known during that orientation camp, was quite 'attractive'. Or to be more exact, I had said that they were some of the few guys whom I would like to know more and better as friends, like to hang out with and then 'see how things progress'). When they asked me that last night, I did give much thought to it and said "no" because I knew they were referring to an attraction on a romantic level.
However, I feel that if a guy had once been attractive to you (in a purely platonic way, maybe because the guy IS good-looking, charming, or simply appeals to you in a certain way), it is very difficult to get rid of that attraction regardless of how much time has passed. As we had studied back in Social Psych last time, a certain level of attraction does have to exist, even amongst friends. But this level of attraction, or the attractive factor, may diminish over time due to other external stimulus (i.e. more attractive people etc) but it would unlikely extinguish to nothing because being humans, we tend to remember the good things, and that includes the factor of attraction or attractiveness of people who had once been in your lives - with the occasional exceptions of even stronger negative stimulus from that particular person, of course.
Having said that, you know how certain people can evoke certain feelings/emotions in you e.g. comfort, because he/she has always been there for you when you are in the pits; being doted on, because he/she always takes care of you in small gestures that you will always remember forever regardless how long ago that had been etc? Don't those feelings/emotions count as 'attractiveness' too? If so, I'll be in quite a bit of 'trouble' because the list would probably be more than what I can count on one hand :P
To end off this episode, I think I can come to a conclusion:
I am rational, a little overly rational at that. :P Oops. Hahaha!
***
Although this is a rather long post, but I have to add on one last thing before signing off:
Am I that open a book, or have my thoughts/feelings written on my face? It is very scary how a particular person (or perhaps two) whom you met up briefly for 30 minutes in a group can read your thoughts without you saying or doing anything, even when you probably spoke to him for less than 5 minutes.
I was quite shocked when I woke up this afternoon to that message from you. How did you know? And yet after the shock, I was quite touched because there was no hint of blame, anger or sadness in your message despite you seemingly knowing the reason why. Maybe I am being too sensitive, but it felt as though you have known it for some time, just that you never said it so explicitly until this message. Then I started to feel guilty and upset with myself for this, for everything. Especially more so for the fact that you were not angry with me at all for my behaviour and thoughts, but on the other hand showing in your unorthodox way that you still care.
I'm sorry. And thank you. :)