(Untitled)

[sinsense]

This entry deals with a story that has been the subject of some discussion within bandslash fandom. Some of that discussion and certain comment exchanges could certainly be described as wanky. I am responding to the story, which makes this a personal response, but it is less a proscriptive response (you should warn for x, you need to warn in y

Comments

[pushingyouaway]

i'm a little leery to click the link as i tend to be someone who steps as far away from the drama unless it involves someone i am, or have become, close with; i prefer to see each point of view and gather a bit more information and take my personal opinion from there

i might check it out.... my eyebrow is raised in interest

and let it be known that i'm a little in lust with your meta (or at least what i classify as meta)

[sinsense]

Heh, I definitely usually avoid drama. I thought that I'd phrased things carefully enough to avoid it, this time, but not quite. :D I'm not too fretful about it, though, it's not extreme. Just kind of interesting.

Eyebrow raise! I see yours and raise you one.

And thank you. I like thinking this stuff out; it's awesome that you're willing to come along for the ride.

[0nlymemories]

I love your brain. I really, really do.

[sinsense]

Whoo! Thank you. :D The whole conversation has been really interesting for me.

[ficsoreal]

I hope I'm invited to the conversation

[sinsense]

No! Take your ball and go home!

Which is to say of course you're invited, and I'm really impressed you found this, read it, and came up with a thoughtful response before I even got around to dropping a comment in your LJ about the post. ZOOM.

Unfortunately, I'm kind of sluggish, so I'm going to wait until tomorrow to respond to your comment. Thank you for it, though.

[ficsoreal]

SPECULUM RAPE!!!! IS NOT OK!

[ficsoreal]

They didn't actually use the speculum and no, speculum rape is not okay. :)

[zillahseye]

I always think it's a little odd when people freak about warnings. Not that I'm judging the oddness, just that I find it odd, you know? I NEVER posted fic with warnings when I first started writing it. It never occurred to me to care if a fic carried them because I came (as most people do) from the world of books, which (unless you do have a friend read them first and say "Dude, you'd love this" or bother to track down detailed synopses or recommendations) are a surprise. I can remember many a jarring experience with what we call "noncon" or "deathfic" or "graphic violence" or "adult situations" or drugs or suicide or Satanism or racism or any number of disturbing things in books over the years, and while I do get that it's a social contract among online fiction writers to be polite and protect readership from triggers, that was not always the case. And while a warning isn't censorship, I think it can create a certain type of anticipation, expectation, or avoidance that might keep away the very people most capable of appreciating

[sinsense]

I didn't post chat logs or stories in RPGs with warnings, and when I first encountered erotica with noncon themes, they weren't really warned for (especially on Nifty).

And while a warning isn't censorship, I think it can create a certain type of anticipation, expectation, or avoidance that might keep away the very people most capable of appreciating--or critiquing--the writing's value and relevance.
I think that's a valid point. It's interesting, and I know I might be criticized for trivializing the issue, but I was most annoyed by the formatting of the warning - if it's something that might be offensive, I separate it out from the header.

Also, I don't even know if it's possible to eliminate triggers. Very, very true. I have issues with open floorplans - like in Ikea by the food court - and parking lots. My ex had issues with sidewalk curbs. At the same time, we are establishing that there are certain things which can reasonably be expected to be triggering, and that people have been assuming a social contract to warn for

[tres_faux]

a) When did you change your comment phrase to "hurl invectations"? This is very cool.

b) I think it is up to what a community might or might not accept ... and I tend to believe that you don't have to label everything in slash or erotica, though an 'nc' might be helpful in places not accustomed to surprises.

c) My views are from someone who doesn't generally write slash in which I give a shit about the characters, or have OTP feelings of any kind. Which makes my perspective pretty different, and I think, more given to queer male impulses and rationales.

d) Thoroughly interesting post.

[sinsense]

a) around the same time I changed the layout, pretty recently. I'm thinking about changing the layout again, but I'm definitely keeping the phrase. It makes me happy every time I see it.

b) I think we've established some really interesting community boundaries. In a place like Nifty, this stuff wouldn't have been labeled at all, as you are probably very aware, and that's part of the reading experience. But on LJ, we aren't as cautious or prepared.

c) Tentacles?

more given to queer male impulses and rationales.
Really interesting point. If you feel like clarifying, I think I know what you mean -- in fact, I'm pretty sure I do -- but I'd be interested to hear more specific stuff.

d) Thank you! A bit exhausting, but it was a lot of mental fun for me.

[tres_faux]

a) re, commenting on your layout in FurryFox is TINY and HARD TO SEE, just FYI.

c) Touchy, trusty tentacles! Good for what ales 'ya!

More base queer male impulses and rationales. Ie, I don't really gravitate towards that "relationship" category on nifty. Get me off, dammit! And while I appreciate an author who treats rape or violence in a manner that actually develops the story in an interesting way, that's really not why I'm there. NC appeals to me if well-written.

(Nothing appeals to me if I see typos. I once corrected someone's bad fic for grammar and typos and e-mailed it back to him/her.)