Tolkien would have wanted his works to inspire Fan Fiction

[jaredmith]

http://jaredmithrandirolorin.blogspot.com/2015/05/tolkien-would-have-wanted-his-works-to.htmlI don't know where to find the quote now, but I'm pretty sure he had said he wanted in time other writers and artists to add to his mythology. He knew full well no great mythology is formed entirely from the mind of only one person. And I include in that

Comments

[indy1776]

Would Tolkien have approved? That’s a question that I think can’t ever really be answered. Yes, there’s the “other hands and minds” quote-- but there’s also Letter 292 where he disapproves of two different people publishing sequels. The difference may very well be that they wanted to publish-publish, but there is literally no way to know the exact reason Tolkien disapproved* or if he would have felt differently about fanfic published on the Internet

LACE

[jaredmith]

Laws and Customs does codify things in hetero-normative terms. But what I meant was he never depicted a Homosexual person or relationship with the intent to condemning it.

Tolkien was opposed to Allegory, there is no no denying however the books where somewhat a product of their times.

Re: LACE

[indy1776]

Neither does his silence about homosexuality means he condones it. Assuming silence equals approval is a logical fallacy (specifically the Argument from Silence). There is literally no way to know what Tolkien truly thought about homosexuality as we have no evidence about it; arguments can be made for approval and disapproval

RE: Re: LACE

[jaredmith]

I'm not arguing he approved it. I don't think it's something he felt particularly opposed to.

Re: Re: LACE

[indy1776]

The fact is, we don't know whether or not he felt opposed to it or not. He never said (at least in the letters, interviews, and papers available to us) and neither has his family stated anything about Tolkien's views of the matter. I repeat: silence does not equal approval or disapproval. Nor does it equal opposition or the lack thereof. Silence is merely absence of proof, and nothing can be learned or implied from it. Arguments for Tolkien's position can be made in either direction using known things (like his Catholicism or his reading of a book with same-sex relationships), but the lack of hard evidence basically means any such discussion likely won't be fruitful. No one from either side is likely to convince the other.

Re: Re: LACE

[jaredmith]

I'm only trying to look on the bright side

Re: Re: LACE

[indy1776]

That's perfectly fine! As I said, it's a valid interpretation. But it is just that-- an interpretation, not fact. You can't use flawed logic to defend it without expecting people to call you on that defense, especially when you post in a discussion community with a multitude of viewpoints.

Re: Re: LACE

[jaredmith]

I am perfectly fine with people disagreeing with my logic. I want to open debates not squash them.

[dawn_felagund]

Yes, there’s the “other hands and minds” quote-- but there’s also Letter 292 where he disapproves of two different people publishing sequels. The difference may very well be that they wanted to publish-publish, but there is literally no way to know the exact reason Tolkien disapproved* or if he would have felt differently about fanfic published on the Internet.I do wonder at his expression of such opposite views. I've always thought that his statement in 131 to Waldman reflects a very idealistic notion, while 292 is jaded by--and this is going to sound so awful--actually being exposed to fans and fandom. In 131, it's as though he imagines others like himself--well-versed in the literature, folklore, and myth to say nothing of the languages that inspired his own creations--doing exactly what he's doing. In 292, it seems he's realized that most people don't find that appealing or work in that way. I wonder what the "young ass" proposed in for a sequel (or the young woman who dared share her ideas with him and was rebuked). Perhaps it

[jaredmith]

Seems plausible

Whether he's a approve or not, I feel fans a responsible to expand the universe.

In my views his writers should have entered the Public Domains awhile ago.

[indy1776]

That is pretty much what I think his reaction comes down to, too. There's an ideal "fan" and fandom… well, you know fandom.

I also wonder what the sequels were about, and if they missed some of the themes Tolkien felt important. And that's not speculating on if they contained any of the even slightly controversial interpretations. (Haha! Yes, that's it-- the dragon-slaying by molten gold!)