A note about the Sheroes cultural appropriation discussion
I wish I'd thought of this yesterday, but I didn't. I only digested it in class, so here I am, typing it up now.
I can't link to all the specific things because the LJ posts are flocked and I have half an hour before class starts. Apologies.
Cultural Appropriation, presented by Sheroes
And just for funsies, here's a Racefail bingo card! And a cultural appropriation bingo card! I'd forgotten these existed. Later, I'm going to go back and play.
Firstly, the argument that wyldlittlepoet should have been more respectful of pet owners when she said they 'could get rid of their cats': this is a fucking tone argument. If only she had been more respectful, if only she had been less callous, things would not have gotten out of hand.
Where is this respect, when we tell you that the discussion is offensive to us? You talk about cat ladies, comparing us to animals, no matter how much they may be family to you. They are animals, because they're not human. We are. Why do we accord less respect than them?
Secondly, zoethor's comparison of gay rights and cat ladies. streussal brought up the point that it was also an issue, but refrained from delving further into it because she didn't want to derail. colorwhirl commented to say that it could read as a swipe at wyldlittlepoet herself. I then commented to say I found it enraging and depressing.
To the both of us, ly_ragnarok replied to clarify that zoethor identifies as gay, and it was probably an unfortunate choice of analogy, but not meant as a strike at anyone. zoethor also replied to both myself and colorwhirl. To me, she voiced agreement with ly_ragnarok, and said she failed at life. To colorwhirl, she remarked that it was pretty rich of her to assume something of an absolute stranger. (This exchange is in one of the locked posts, which I currently cannot see any longer either.)
There are a number of issues here. Firstly, the double standard. Why is wyldlittlepoet held to her unfortunate word choice, lambasted for it, called names, had insinuations made that she was a heartless person despite her devotion to her animals, which she repeatedly stated -- while zoethor is allowed to get off scot-free? Why is wyldlittlepoet given a standard while zoethor doesn't have to comply with it?
And the other issue: I looked at the Sheroes thread while I was not logged in. My previous activity on Sheroes was not conducted on my current laptop, so there shouldn't be any misconceptions about leftover cookies or whatever. I was able to read the thread in its entirety, which I can also verify because I did log in later. colorwhirl, presumably, would be able to do the same. Why is it necessary to know the details of zoethor's life in order to understand all the nuances of the conversation? While I recognise zoethor's name, I do not remember significant interactions between us while I was on Sheroes. Why didn't I rate a nasty comment? Because I'm a former Sheroes contributor? Because I was only reacting to colorwhirl's assessment? I don't know, because I do not know zoethor well, at all. But it shouldn't even matter, because it was a public thread, and because actions (such as frivolous comparisons or a lack of response to accusations of derailing) sometimes speak a hell of a lot louder than words.
The internet is not a private sandbox. Sheroes Central is not a void bereft of contact with the outer reaches of the web.
Finally, (and this is in the actual Sheroes thread), zoethor claims: 1) that wyldlittlepoet was attacking her and 2) the nature of threads on Sheroes is to evolve into their own and the culture of off-topic on Sheroes justifies her branch into injustices against cats.
1) It was not an attack. It was a response to attacks on wyldlittlepoet which ended in anger. Sometimes, assholes, anger is the only way to get heard. Obviously 'polite' discourse wasn't working. You can see the long, patient evolution of the thread in the link (which I will later provide). And I classify them as attacks on Linwen because they claimed that she was not listening to them, that she was brushing off their concerns while she would have been angry if they had done the same to her (which, you know, they were doing), and a number of attacks which I would like to say are outright ad hominem: she was the reason why laws for the better consideration of animal welfare were necessary.
Funnily enough (or not, really), in a thread about a touchy subject, one of the few apologies I see is when wyldlittlepoet says she doesn't consider pets a part of the family. Nothing to anyone who may have been personally hurt by the encounter. (Go to the full thread, hit ctrl+F, search for 'sorry' or 'apologize'.) (But the fail is not completely directed at one person: tarrinthetree is a champ, and has more patience than I.)
The fact that it was presented as an attack put the onus of fixing the conflict on wyldlittlepoet. Be less angry, tell me what I did wrong in terms that will make you go away, back off.
2) The culture of off-topic on Sheroes is alive, so far as I can say since I left. However, this was not a post about shipping, nor was it a boxers or briefs poll. This was about a real person being hurt, and having her concerns being brushed off. This was about something that is prevalent, something that does happen, and it was being obscured, obfuscated behind concerns that, while perhaps no less real, were in the wrong space and which detracted from the issue.
All right, I need to get to class, I will post links later done. I am pissed off, I have held off on a lot of sarcasm (trust me, I had a fuckload more), and I have an internship interview today that is pretty damn important and that I have taken time and focus away from to address this fucking thing.
Edited for a bit more coherency and another observation or two. This post is open because ly_ragnarok, zoethor, colorwheel, and other people whose posts I've linked to are not on my flist. I'm not going to seek anyone out to throw this in their faces, but, just in case, I don't want anyone to say shit about hiding behind flock.
Edit: Links up, with bonus fun stuff.
I can't link to all the specific things because the LJ posts are flocked and I have half an hour before class starts. Apologies.
Cultural Appropriation, presented by Sheroes
And just for funsies, here's a Racefail bingo card! And a cultural appropriation bingo card! I'd forgotten these existed. Later, I'm going to go back and play.
Firstly, the argument that wyldlittlepoet should have been more respectful of pet owners when she said they 'could get rid of their cats': this is a fucking tone argument. If only she had been more respectful, if only she had been less callous, things would not have gotten out of hand.
Where is this respect, when we tell you that the discussion is offensive to us? You talk about cat ladies, comparing us to animals, no matter how much they may be family to you. They are animals, because they're not human. We are. Why do we accord less respect than them?
Secondly, zoethor's comparison of gay rights and cat ladies. streussal brought up the point that it was also an issue, but refrained from delving further into it because she didn't want to derail. colorwhirl commented to say that it could read as a swipe at wyldlittlepoet herself. I then commented to say I found it enraging and depressing.
To the both of us, ly_ragnarok replied to clarify that zoethor identifies as gay, and it was probably an unfortunate choice of analogy, but not meant as a strike at anyone. zoethor also replied to both myself and colorwhirl. To me, she voiced agreement with ly_ragnarok, and said she failed at life. To colorwhirl, she remarked that it was pretty rich of her to assume something of an absolute stranger. (This exchange is in one of the locked posts, which I currently cannot see any longer either.)
There are a number of issues here. Firstly, the double standard. Why is wyldlittlepoet held to her unfortunate word choice, lambasted for it, called names, had insinuations made that she was a heartless person despite her devotion to her animals, which she repeatedly stated -- while zoethor is allowed to get off scot-free? Why is wyldlittlepoet given a standard while zoethor doesn't have to comply with it?
And the other issue: I looked at the Sheroes thread while I was not logged in. My previous activity on Sheroes was not conducted on my current laptop, so there shouldn't be any misconceptions about leftover cookies or whatever. I was able to read the thread in its entirety, which I can also verify because I did log in later. colorwhirl, presumably, would be able to do the same. Why is it necessary to know the details of zoethor's life in order to understand all the nuances of the conversation? While I recognise zoethor's name, I do not remember significant interactions between us while I was on Sheroes. Why didn't I rate a nasty comment? Because I'm a former Sheroes contributor? Because I was only reacting to colorwhirl's assessment? I don't know, because I do not know zoethor well, at all. But it shouldn't even matter, because it was a public thread, and because actions (such as frivolous comparisons or a lack of response to accusations of derailing) sometimes speak a hell of a lot louder than words.
The internet is not a private sandbox. Sheroes Central is not a void bereft of contact with the outer reaches of the web.
Finally, (and this is in the actual Sheroes thread), zoethor claims: 1) that wyldlittlepoet was attacking her and 2) the nature of threads on Sheroes is to evolve into their own and the culture of off-topic on Sheroes justifies her branch into injustices against cats.
1) It was not an attack. It was a response to attacks on wyldlittlepoet which ended in anger. Sometimes, assholes, anger is the only way to get heard. Obviously 'polite' discourse wasn't working. You can see the long, patient evolution of the thread in the link (which I will later provide). And I classify them as attacks on Linwen because they claimed that she was not listening to them, that she was brushing off their concerns while she would have been angry if they had done the same to her (which, you know, they were doing), and a number of attacks which I would like to say are outright ad hominem: she was the reason why laws for the better consideration of animal welfare were necessary.
Funnily enough (or not, really), in a thread about a touchy subject, one of the few apologies I see is when wyldlittlepoet says she doesn't consider pets a part of the family. Nothing to anyone who may have been personally hurt by the encounter. (Go to the full thread, hit ctrl+F, search for 'sorry' or 'apologize'.) (But the fail is not completely directed at one person: tarrinthetree is a champ, and has more patience than I.)
The fact that it was presented as an attack put the onus of fixing the conflict on wyldlittlepoet. Be less angry, tell me what I did wrong in terms that will make you go away, back off.
2) The culture of off-topic on Sheroes is alive, so far as I can say since I left. However, this was not a post about shipping, nor was it a boxers or briefs poll. This was about a real person being hurt, and having her concerns being brushed off. This was about something that is prevalent, something that does happen, and it was being obscured, obfuscated behind concerns that, while perhaps no less real, were in the wrong space and which detracted from the issue.
All right, I need to get to class, I will post links later done. I am pissed off, I have held off on a lot of sarcasm (trust me, I had a fuckload more), and I have an internship interview today that is pretty damn important and that I have taken time and focus away from to address this fucking thing.
Edited for a bit more coherency and another observation or two. This post is open because ly_ragnarok, zoethor, colorwheel, and other people whose posts I've linked to are not on my flist. I'm not going to seek anyone out to throw this in their faces, but, just in case, I don't want anyone to say shit about hiding behind flock.
Edit: Links up, with bonus fun stuff.