Education is FAIL in America.

[silvaewolf]

Can I begin to explain how my state government is basically composed of mother fucking scheming bastards that are shorting us of our education?

It's because the main power of this nation wants to stay in power. They don't want to give any such advantage to those who are of the middle class or lower because those in power want things to stay the

Comments

[rainy_days06]

You can actually receive an excellent education from a community college for about half the price you just listed, in my experience. The thing about higher education is that it isn't considered necessary, only a tool to better yourself and while a lot of days it is very-nearly necessary the system is set up in the mind frame that it isn't. While the rising prices may have something to do with politics in your state, for the most part I'm willing to bet that it has more to do with the greed of the people running the school (the dean, ect), pay raises for professors, fancy new school facilities to attract new students, things like that.

Also, three thousand dollars is a relatively cheap education for a semester in University, based off of what I know about it from friends that actually went to Universities instead of Community College like I did. A semester of education at Iowa State University will cost you 7 grand a semester, the University of Iowa, I believe, is 8 or 9 and those are considered to be pretty average Universities as far as I know. A private college, if I'm thinking correctly, will cost you two grand or so more than that.

Beyond all that being middle class or poor and trying to get an education you're more likely to get assistance from the government through programs like FASFA than anyone else. While some of the people in politics are money grubbing power mongerers, most of the people in politics are people that set out to do this country one better and improve it - public service people, much like cops and firefighters; there may be crooked ones just like there are hackers along side programmers for computers, but the majority mean well, sometimes they just don't agree on how, exactly, that is done.

On top of that, just about any country that has a reasonable educational standard is going to charge you just as much, if not more than, an American University's tuition. Trust me, the grass isn't greener on the other side.

[phanthasm]

Not really, in many countries the government covers a lot of the costs for a student's education. In Belgium the tuition fee -- no matter what university or education -- is going to cost you only $750 A YEAR. In Sweden your entire education is FREE OF CHARGE. In my country the tuition fee is only $ 2500 A YEAR. And our education is just as good as any, my university is on the top of the world ranking and my bachelor of science is internationally acknowledge, it will be worth the same as somebody who has the degree in the USA while paying thousands of more for the tuition fee and other costs.

However it is difficult to compare different countries, for example those countries in Europe I just mentioned - ask a lot more taxes, because the government has to fund it from somewhere. So in the USA the tax rates are lower but the bill to any education is much higher.

[rainy_days06]

As you said; you pay higher taxes. Way higher taxes, I can't remember if it was you, Iris, or someone else that said you guys pay nearly 50% of your income into taxes. It isn't cheaper for you to have an education, you just pay for it differently. On top of that, I can get an education at a community college here in the US for less than what you pay for yours AND I pay lower taxes, and that is without government assistant programs to help pay for my tuition. You can label the price tag "taxes" or you can label it "tuition" but at the end of the day it is the same thing and is nearly the same amount of money.

Beyond all that, I never said that your education system was somehow less than the educational systems here in the US. o.O I was referring to third world countries.

[phanthasm]

50% that is only to the top incomes of my country, you can't compare apples with pears and state they are the same. Also, do community college offer 4 year bachelor degrees and after that master degrees? If you're only referring to the AA degrees, once more you are comparing apples with pears and that's not the same. Because at the end of the day I can say I have my bachelor AND master degree without so much of a "student loan" because higher tertiary education is affordable.

I realize none of either situations are ideal but I do wish education in the USA would be cheaper because far too often I have seen people who have to pay lots of $$$$, have two to three jobs and student loans to finish the degree of their dreams.

[rainy_days06]

50% is more than what the top money makers in this country pay in taxes, just like the bottom half in your country pays more than the bottom half of mine in taxes. It is comparable, because you pay more there in taxes than you do here by rate of comparison for financial status.

And yes, Community Colleges do offer 4 year degrees, some I'm sure offer a masters degree but that is rare as most things that you would go to a Community College for you wouldn't need or want a masters degree in because it would be entirely unnecessary - as it is generally entirely unnecessary for anyone going into most general, middle class, fields to get a masters degree. Most people that work most jobs in this country could have gotten the same education for less at a Community College but they end up going to Universities and wasting their money because of the ridiculous hype that is placed on how special it is to go to a University as versus a Community College. Frankly, it is bullshit.

Unless you're going into a super-high paying highly specialized field you're going to be able to get your education at a Community College for half, or even a quarter, of the price. The exceptions to this, are, as I said - super high paying highly specialized fields - high power attorneys, surgeons, ect. But if you're going to be like the majority of the population and you're going to get a Business degree, or go into Criminal Justice, or Communications, or some sort of service industry job, ect. (which, as I said, is what almost everyone does end up doing) you can get a degree from a Community College that will be equal in that field to one from an expensive University.

So, actually, it is perfectly comparable and also just as affordable as your educational system, because while you may not be paying off student loans you will spend your entire working life (including before you even went for the education) paying taxes that are twice as high as the ones I pay. It evens out. It ends up being the same thing, no matter how you slice it, in the long run.

[phanthasm]

That's once more compare apples with pears. In the most regular and middle class of incomes USA people pay 25% of their money on taxes and in my country it's 31% of their income. If you say that 6% is paying off "my college loan" it's better to research the word social well-fare state whereas the USA allows more freedom. For example it's much more than that, a health care system, good social security, cheap education for everyone (and not only those who can afford it).

Community colleges do perhaps offer four year degrees but their curriculum is less than at a university. At the same time it is said that student life is supposed to be the best time of your life. Most students enjoy campus life as a great dimension to their life -- where a boy turns into a man. Also future work employment companies might look at the place you have studies and prefer universities above community colleges. Also most community colleges offer mostly AA degrees as a pre-requirement or road before finishing your bachelor at a university (and thus paying a higher tuition). And while you say it's cheaper than in my country how come the price of local communities average $4500 for tuition fee only?

[rainy_days06]

I don't know where you're getting your statistic, but my husband and I - in the middle class, pay a little less than 10% in taxes to the government, so you pay quite a bit more than I do - three times as much.

In other news, a Community College's curriculum is not less than that of a University, that is a myth. Any College or University that has good professors and offers course study specialized in what you're studying is a good school and they can be found in call kinds of educational facilities, equally including Community Colleges. While most community colleges offer transfer-based programs (you'll find that almost all colleges and universities are set up for this, actually) for those who are seeking to go on to finish their degrees elsewhere that does not mean you can't get a full education at one.

Beyond that, I have no idea what you're talking about for local 4500 tuition fee, wherever you're getting your statistics from is off. I paid 2400 dollars for a year of Community College, which also included the price of all of my course material (books & supplies, ect). and can vouch for the validity of my course material as well - as it was proven that I was actually studying a higher level of material than that of my peers than went to surrounding Universities. Furthermore, I've spoken to several students that I schooled with at the Community College I went to that went to further their educations at highly respected Universities and private Colleges and 4 of the 5 people I spoke to about it said they actually felt like they learned more from and better enjoyed their Community College experience. Also, most states offer Community Colleges that offer student facilities as well (I know mine did) so that they can have "campus lifestyle" as you put it.

Lastly, don't insult my intelligence and suggest that I do research on the topic -- I don't appreciate it, I know how the social and political structure of your country works, I also know how mine works, and frankly; I like mine a lot better than I like yours. Perhaps it is a matter of personal opinion (which, really, it is), but just because I don't agree with you certainly doesn't mean that I'm stupid. I'm done discussing this with you, as it has gotten out of hand and has lost the easiness of a good-natured discussion, for me anyway. Feel free to respond again, but don't expect another reply from me.

[phanthasm]

I don't think we'll agree on this matter.

However I'd like to end my phrase by saying I'm sorry for making you feel insulted. None of what I said was meant that way. And thank you for your (opposing) insights on the situation :)

[silvaewolf]

If there was any way for myself to fulfill everything in my community college, I'd certainly go back to it. I loved my time at my community college, just because the professors are excellent and articulate, and the classes can give you a very fulfilling education. Unfortunately though, the career I'm shooting for *does* require a BA or higher. Trust me, if I could stop at an Associate's Degree for what I'm doing, I definitely would. I can see your point on how the rising tuition can also involve those people running the school as well, but the majority of it is from the state (my University is doing all that they can right now to attempt to make it affordable, even though it certainly isn't seeming that way.)

I'm not eligible for the FAFSA yet, in which I've been attempting to apply for but can't because of a silly rule that independents cannot qualify until they're 24 years of age (which I think is ridiculous, and can't seem to understand that). I'm just generally frustrated at my state government overall for the fact that our education was *highly* reasonable, if not at an excellent tuition for those who are residents of the state. I just feel the budget cuts are unnecessary when it comes to education, since it is one of the most important aspects of our civilization, and some people just don't get it that not everyone has access to financial aid whether you can obtain it from the FAFSA or not.

Other than that, I can definitely relate to some points you've listed, though, and can understand things definitely aren't greener on the other side, unfortunately. :(