If it wasn't written for you, complaining about it on the comm will only annoy the mods because they'll brace for wank, annoy the author because she wasn't writing for you, and possibly make the giftee feel like she's an idiot for having enjoyed her gift (if she did). There is just no way to win here and no graceful way to do it without looking like a gigantic douchebag. It's not simply "tacky" but illogical: the fic was not written for you, so why should anyone in that community, reading the comments, care what you think? The exchange is public, certainly, but it is still an exchange, and the recipient -- not the author, and not you -- is the most important person who will open and read that fic post.
That it is public, however, means you're perfectly entitled to talk about the story elsewhere. If the author happens to read your journal (or fanfic rants if you're that upset about the fic XD), she'll just have to suck it up and cope: you are entitled to your opinion, fest fic or not, but where you share that negative opinion is important because of the context you've specified.
Yes, I agree with this. Regarding the first paragraph, I just wonder because people other than the recipient will, hopefully, comment on the fic and hopefully they won't just lie through their teeth to be "nice". I'm curious what the best protocol is for when you just didn't like a story, and I agree that commenting negatively is probably not the thing to do. You're right, it's illogical, but surely there should be allowances for honesty.
Have people been reviewing the HD Holidays fics? If so, point me? I've been reading rec reviews, but nothing that's meant to be objective.
people other than the recipient will, hopefully, comment on the fic and hopefully they won't just lie through their teeth to be "nice" Hehehe, a lot of fandom readers are not very picky about what they read. ^_^
When I don't like a story, I backbutton out of it -- if I like it enough to finish it, I can find something positive to tell the author. But even if I were the type to read something I hated to the end just for the trainwreck factor, I'd probably just say nothing. If it annoyed me enough, I might mention it on Twitter or post about it in my LJ, disclaimered with "my opinion; if you don't like crit, do not read this" the way I used to do for the H/D reviews way back in the day.
I've seen a few people mention things that didn't quite work for them in Hols fics but I mostly glaze over at that stuff so I don't remember who, but yeah, that's usually in the context of recs. Considering that fandom's collective knickers get all bunched up in a bad way every time someone attempts to engage in (legitimate) criticism... xD
I TOTALLY agree with your first paragraph. However, I differ slightly from there. I feel that if you do feel the need to vent about a poorly executed story, it should not mention the name or link to it. People are entitled to their opinion, and to express it, but why hurt someone's feelings over a matter of what may just be your personal taste?
Then again, I feel that way about all stories that we don't personally like. It's lovely to support and engage with an author who writes something we enjoy. But what value is there in inflicting our personal taste and negativity (in some cases pure venom) on someone and undermining all the work and sense of achievement they've put into writing something? It's not adding to their experience in writing - it's just puffing ourselves off for no given value at all other than feeling superior. You might hate it, but someone spent the time and effort writing it, and someone else might love it.
Of course, that's just MY opinion on it. But I have seen a few things written about this in the last few days, and I just don't see why we can't be nicer to each other, and realise that it's not always about US?
The thing is, if I'm venting about something in my journal, it's my journal, which is all about me; other people's feelings are not particularly... relevant in that context. I generally try to append disclaimers to stuff I post publicly that I know might be inflammatory, plus people who have been around my LJ for a few minutes know I'm contrary and sarcastic by nature.
I just don't think a review posted in a personal journal that doesn't belong to the author is any of the author's business. If someone posts a review in their journal, they are not "inflicting" their personal taste and negativity on someone. They are posting in their journal. Inflicting is only when you give the person no opportunity to avoid your comments -- as is the case with direct feedback. Someone who doesn't want to read the crit can avoid an LJ post easily, and if they're offended, they can defriend.
Reading a fic is a time investment: if I was reading a fic that looked okay hoping it'd get better, and it never did, I think I have pretty good reason to talk about why it didn't work for me: I just lost time out of my life, and I'm not getting that time back. To the author that time may be negligible in comparison to the time she spent writing the fic, but then we're getting into a discussion of whose time is more valuable, and that way lies madness. My time is valuable to me, and if I feel like an author wasted it by failing to deliver on what was a promising fic, yeah, I do get to complain about it whether the author likes it or not.
To offset the frustration, I don't see whom a post about it can possibly harm if there's a clear disclaimer that I'm about to be negative about someone's work. If someone is hyper-sensitive to crit, they should take a little responsibility for themselves and not seek out crit of their work. I have never liked fandom's tendency to ficcer-worship and I still don't like it: readers' time is valuable, too. If a reader needs to cope with having wasted her time by criticising the fic in her journal, that's her prerogative. Time-wasting is not the only thing; sometimes a fic will trigger, and that is reasonable cause to vent and work through those feelings. There are perfectly valid reasons to dislike a fic and want to talk about it other than "puffing ourselves up", is what I'm trying to say.
I do not think readers should be silenced just because ficcers don't want to even by accident stumble across any negativity about their precious internet pornography.
We always talk about being nice to the writers, but nobody ever seems to want to be nice to the readers, you know? Sure, as long as they're properly squeeful, authors love their readers, but the minute a reader steps out of the adoring line, it's back to the Cult of Nice vs Cult of Mean arguments, which accomplish nothing. If someone is posting in their journal, it's her journal, and she posts what she wants. If people don't like it and if she's being hugely inappropriate/flamey, people will draw their own conclusions about her character and behave accordingly, but to say "no, you're not allowed to speak up about this ever because this other person's contribution to fandom is more valuable than yours" is not the right approach IMO.
YES BUT YOU ARE A BIG MEAN MEANYPANTS, F. SO MEEEN.
As usual, I agree with this, mostly. The few times I have ranted about one fic or another in my own journal, I haven't actually linked to the fic itself, because I'm not really interested in arguing with the author, nor am I interested in truly hurting someone's feelings. As we've said before, telling someone that their story was pants is rather akin to telling someone their baby is ugly. (Also, the one time I ranted about being forced to coo over photos of an extremely ugly baby, I named no names. Hee.) Also, I think I tend to give enough details that people will know what I'm talking about.
But yes, as a fandom we have become so hypersensitive to Playing Nice no matter what we really believe. I don't like being made to feel that because my opinion of something is not all hugs and puppies, then it's somehow invalid. This isn't grammar school; we're all alleged adults here and life is not always people telling you how great you are. (THE GENERAL "YOU" NOT THE YOU YOU BECAUSE YOU ARE GREAT AND I AM SAYING SO LOUDLY AND CLEARLY BECAUSE ILU OK BIE.)
I agree that discussing fic in my own journal is all about my perceptions and how it affected me, or how I even translate what I read into things I need to work on in my own writing. I usually try to be polite and not insulting and take a more technical road. I also don't usually name the fic so that people who might not have read it (or even have read but don't recognize) can discuss in more general terms.
HOWEVER... in anon fest it can bite you on the ass, because the author can end up seeing it and will without fail take it personally rather than as a discussion about writing technical aspects. So while I agree, it's a definite risk to take when the author is anonymous and you (as the journaler/reader) need to decide if you would still make the same post if you knew who the author was.
For me, it wouldn't make a difference, but I suspect for a lot of folks, it just might.
That it is public, however, means you're perfectly entitled to talk about the story elsewhere. If the author happens to read your journal (or fanfic rants if you're that upset about the fic XD), she'll just have to suck it up and cope: you are entitled to your opinion, fest fic or not, but where you share that negative opinion is important because of the context you've specified.
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Have people been reviewing the HD Holidays fics? If so, point me? I've been reading rec reviews, but nothing that's meant to be objective.
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Hehehe, a lot of fandom readers are not very picky about what they read. ^_^
When I don't like a story, I backbutton out of it -- if I like it enough to finish it, I can find something positive to tell the author. But even if I were the type to read something I hated to the end just for the trainwreck factor, I'd probably just say nothing. If it annoyed me enough, I might mention it on Twitter or post about it in my LJ, disclaimered with "my opinion; if you don't like crit, do not read this" the way I used to do for the H/D reviews way back in the day.
I've seen a few people mention things that didn't quite work for them in Hols fics but I mostly glaze over at that stuff so I don't remember who, but yeah, that's usually in the context of recs. Considering that fandom's collective knickers get all bunched up in a bad way every time someone attempts to engage in (legitimate) criticism... xD
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Then again, I feel that way about all stories that we don't personally like. It's lovely to support and engage with an author who writes something we enjoy. But what value is there in inflicting our personal taste and negativity (in some cases pure venom) on someone and undermining all the work and sense of achievement they've put into writing something? It's not adding to their experience in writing - it's just puffing ourselves off for no given value at all other than feeling superior. You might hate it, but someone spent the time and effort writing it, and someone else might love it.
Of course, that's just MY opinion on it. But I have seen a few things written about this in the last few days, and I just don't see why we can't be nicer to each other, and realise that it's not always about US?
*hugs F*
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I just don't think a review posted in a personal journal that doesn't belong to the author is any of the author's business. If someone posts a review in their journal, they are not "inflicting" their personal taste and negativity on someone. They are posting in their journal. Inflicting is only when you give the person no opportunity to avoid your comments -- as is the case with direct feedback. Someone who doesn't want to read the crit can avoid an LJ post easily, and if they're offended, they can defriend.
Reading a fic is a time investment: if I was reading a fic that looked okay hoping it'd get better, and it never did, I think I have pretty good reason to talk about why it didn't work for me: I just lost time out of my life, and I'm not getting that time back. To the author that time may be negligible in comparison to the time she spent writing the fic, but then we're getting into a discussion of whose time is more valuable, and that way lies madness. My time is valuable to me, and if I feel like an author wasted it by failing to deliver on what was a promising fic, yeah, I do get to complain about it whether the author likes it or not.
To offset the frustration, I don't see whom a post about it can possibly harm if there's a clear disclaimer that I'm about to be negative about someone's work. If someone is hyper-sensitive to crit, they should take a little responsibility for themselves and not seek out crit of their work. I have never liked fandom's tendency to ficcer-worship and I still don't like it: readers' time is valuable, too. If a reader needs to cope with having wasted her time by criticising the fic in her journal, that's her prerogative. Time-wasting is not the only thing; sometimes a fic will trigger, and that is reasonable cause to vent and work through those feelings. There are perfectly valid reasons to dislike a fic and want to talk about it other than "puffing ourselves up", is what I'm trying to say.
I do not think readers should be silenced just because ficcers don't want to even by accident stumble across any negativity about their precious internet pornography.
We always talk about being nice to the writers, but nobody ever seems to want to be nice to the readers, you know? Sure, as long as they're properly squeeful, authors love their readers, but the minute a reader steps out of the adoring line, it's back to the Cult of Nice vs Cult of Mean arguments, which accomplish nothing. If someone is posting in their journal, it's her journal, and she posts what she wants. If people don't like it and if she's being hugely inappropriate/flamey, people will draw their own conclusions about her character and behave accordingly, but to say "no, you're not allowed to speak up about this ever because this other person's contribution to fandom is more valuable than yours" is not the right approach IMO.
That's my opinion on it, anyway. :) ♥♥
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As usual, I agree with this, mostly. The few times I have ranted about one fic or another in my own journal, I haven't actually linked to the fic itself, because I'm not really interested in arguing with the author, nor am I interested in truly hurting someone's feelings. As we've said before, telling someone that their story was pants is rather akin to telling someone their baby is ugly. (Also, the one time I ranted about being forced to coo over photos of an extremely ugly baby, I named no names. Hee.) Also, I think I tend to give enough details that people will know what I'm talking about.
But yes, as a fandom we have become so hypersensitive to Playing Nice no matter what we really believe. I don't like being made to feel that because my opinion of something is not all hugs and puppies, then it's somehow invalid. This isn't grammar school; we're all alleged adults here and life is not always people telling you how great you are. (THE GENERAL "YOU" NOT THE YOU YOU BECAUSE YOU ARE GREAT AND I AM SAYING SO LOUDLY AND CLEARLY BECAUSE ILU OK BIE.)
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HOWEVER... in anon fest it can bite you on the ass, because the author can end up seeing it and will without fail take it personally rather than as a discussion about writing technical aspects. So while I agree, it's a definite risk to take when the author is anonymous and you (as the journaler/reader) need to decide if you would still make the same post if you knew who the author was.
For me, it wouldn't make a difference, but I suspect for a lot of folks, it just might.
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