Scary Terrorists, Not

[sierra_le_oli]

It doesn't pay to immediately comment on things like the failed terrorist actions in London because it takes a while for solid facts to surface above the nonsense. However one thing was quickly clear: these guys deserve a zero for effort. The Register has an article by a bomb disposal guy on why their methods sucked (via silly_swordsmanWingnut's route to and from

Comments

[gmh]

I noticed those a couple of weeks ago.

Part of me wants one; part of me has a definite resistance to wearing anything depicting the crown.

(...and part of me says "well, really, why do you feel as though you have to Make A Statement at anyone else anyway?")

I suspect that the English stiff upper lip is viewed largely as a middle-class product of empire these days; something that never really existed per se except in self-regarding media portrayals such as Mrs. Miniver, Brief Encounter and Swallows and Amazons.

It's also an intellectually-manufactured idea; straight out of the Stoic school via Empire-era Oxbridge; if you read up on histories of the Blitz and so forth, it becomes clear that the majority of people involved were no more inclined to a 'stiff upper lip' than people are today.

...and yet I know some English people who are like that to some extent.

(The esteemed Mr. Smythe, for example)

As with so many things, the stiff upper lip is both a blessing and a curse, depending on whether you're talking about heroic chaps keeping their heads in crises or people so conditioned against complaining that they will ignore a trivial medical complaint until it becomes really serious.

[sierra_le_oli]

Great poster, but I must also confess to a slight twitchiness about the crown. But I didn't mean it for us, but for all those excitable people in the media.

I disagree with you about the stiff upper lip, though I'm sure it's been mythologised to a certain extent. There is a definite difference in how much the English in general are prepared to complain compared to the Dutch, French and a number of other cultures I'm familiar(ish) with.

The stiff upper lip was also taken to New Zealand by English colonial settlers and I observe a similar difference in how Kiwis don't complain compared to Dutch, French, etc. (Although that's also because the Kiwis have been influenced by Polynesian laidbackness, but of course cultural character traits don't live in isolation.) The positive and negative side of it you mention is exactly what I think of when it comes to Kiwis.

[ailbhe]

Is it stiff u--er li-or "mustn't grumble"?

[sierra_le_oli]

Part of having a stiff upper lip is not grumbling but also mean stolidly carrying on regardless through adversity. I think "mustn't grumble" comes more from a feeling that one mustn't put oneself forward.

[ailbhe]

similar results, different motivations- 's wy I asked.

[sierra_le_oli]

Good you asked, I think was in danger of getting them muddled while trying to keep the my argument as narrow as possible instead of rambling all over the place. :-)

[bonnie_j]

Based on my own travelling observations, I think Kiwis are even less likely to complain about something than Brits. I saw a few Brits getting agitated in Greece, but they'd waited until they were irate before they did anything about it.

Has Richard Dawkins said anything about this bloody silly plot?

[gmh]

I disagree with you about the stiff upper lip

Far less than you might think, even if I prefer the Epicureans to the Stoics.

When describing it as a middle-class product of empire, I was talking about the way that the dominant culture appears to view such things, rather than my own personal views on the matter.

As such, the BBC is no longer characterised by smartly-dressed middle-class white men speaking in impeccable RP accents; if anything, the RP accent is less favoured than some form of regional accent, because it is felt to be less approachable.

As such, I think that there is some form of backlash against the stiff upper lip still going on in the British media; an effort to get people to express their emotions in the public sphere.

Look at the number of articles asking people how $emotioned they were at $event, rather than what actually happened there.

Personally, I remain rather fond of the stiff upper lip; even if there are times when you need to recognise its limits, there is something very comforting about the idea that people won't automatically assume that you want to hear their life story.

[sierra_le_oli]

I misinterpreted what you wrote sorry, I see what you mean now. Also, my understanding of the whole class thing is definitely imperfect, but I'm trying to work on that.