you have a more sympathetic view of Marc's situation, which i actually share, but which you really have to think about to arrive at.
i'll share a recent experience. There's a guy at work who's been married for years to the same lady. about 17 years ago they went thru fertility treatments and all the forced sex of that, and were unable to conceive. they adopted two children from overseas. lovemaking was ruined for her for life, according to him, because of the awful stuff they went thru trying and failing to conceive. they went on to make a wonderful life for their two children, who are now in college and high school. the marriage floundered from there on out and the wife is a hard, bitter, unloving woman. the man has now, just past 50, developed a friendship with a woman at the gym where he works out and he talks about her incessantly at work. i've become very tired of this because i've heard about his unhappiness for years and wanted him to leave his wife and start over, blah blah, but he says he loves her.
so anyway, we were working a mid shift together recently and i was concerned about having to listen to him talking about her but decided to try to be open minded and soon we were both sharing stories and i realized we aren't that different. my husband just has more redeeming moments than his wife, plus he has the kids to bind them. i can understand how he'd be torn tho, and how the other woman, who thinks he's God's gift, is total cocaine to him.
skip to the movies, BBM and FF. both men are in relationships with women but someone comes along who pushes buttons the woman can't push. it's easy to say they should resist temptation, and they try. they are both good men, ennis and marc. they tried to resist and they couldn't. whatever jack and kay had to offer was stronger than the bond they shared with alma and bettina.
should they stay in a relationship that doesn't meet their needs forever just because they started it? i liken it to driving: if you take a wrong turn, you don't keep going on indefinitely even after you realize you've made a mistake. you try to find your way back to your true path.
i feel sorry for anyone who marries and then later realizes they don't want to stay in the relationship forever, but sadly, that actually happens to most people. the reason why it falls apart doesn't change the fact that it does. it doesn't even necessarily mean the folks made a mistake starting the relationship. life just doesn't start on a straight, unchanging-till-the-end path. stuff happens and sometimes things don't work anymore. it doesn't mean anyone is a bad person.
you have a more sympathetic view of Marc's situation, which i actually share, but which you really have to think about to arrive at.
You’re right, I’ve been thinking about this movie since the first time I saw it in March, so I’ve had a lot of time to process it.
Do you see Kay as the victim? That Marc led him on and then couldn’t pull the trigger...couldn’t make the choice?
About particular scenes: did you notice after the jog in the forest the first time - when Kay gives Marc the shotgun with the joint and then kisses him - the scene where Marc is packing up his running gear, he puts his running shoes in the bag and stops and looks at them for a few seconds....he’s thinking about that kiss.
And the phone call! The day after sex in the rain, when Marc answers the phone.....what on earth did Kay say to him to make Marc get that sweet smile on his face?
no, i don't really see Kay as the victim because of what you said in a different comment elsewhere: he came in guns blazing knowing that Marc wasn't really on board, and even after he saw that Bettina was PG and that Marc was in a committed relationship with her. If i was a harsher judge, i would see Kay as a homewrecker. i don't see him that way, but i'm not sure we can honestly say that he doesn't carry some of that blame. what would've happened if he'd shut marc out after he realized B was having a baby? would M have let it die?
i watched the movie for only the second time last night: i'm on vakay with my mom and so that's twice i've watched it with her under the same roof. slightly creepy!! LOL!!
but i noticed that scene and thought the same thing: he's thinking about what happened in those shoes the last time he wore them.
i read a review of the movie and it said that Marc is moving up in the forces. when i first saw the movie i thought they were at the Police ACademy learning to be cops but M asked K how he ended up a cop, so that and the review make me think this was deeper training for already established policemen. do you know? also, at the end when Marc is back at the academy, what's up with that? any ideas?
Great question: what would Marc have done if Kay stopped his pursuit after finding out about Bettina? You can see in the scene at the bowling alley when Britt & Kay come in, Marc is beside himself. The last thing he wants is for Kay to be there...and in the men’s room: “So, now you know.” But in the very next scene, he’s outside his bedroom smoking, and he simply cannot stop thinking about Kay.
LOL @ watching under the same roof as your mom! When I first got obsessed, I downloaded it to my kindle fire and was watching it (with headphones) while I was in the waiting room at the mechanic’s, getting my car inspected! I had to shield the screen a couple times.....
They were cops, but were undergoing specialized training to be on the riot squad.
The way I read the ending is that he’s moved back into his room at the academy, and uses the track to keep up with his jogging. He’s back on the track, no more running in the forest w/Kay. But, unlike the opening scene, he pulls away from the others, he can now “breathe evenly”, the way Kay taught him. *sniff*
There are some deleted scenes out there, but in German w/no subtitles. I have 2 for sure, I’ll put them up here later, they’re pretty self-explanatory.
Kay has a total "Oh Fuck!!" look on his face as he looks at Bettina and Marc does his best to convey that he's invested in her and he baby, but when he says, "So now you know," i kinda take from that that he's saying, "This is why i can't be with you. Because i'm already committed (and trapped)." Which in my mind kinda implies, if it wasn't for the baby, things would be different.
We don't get to see any of their interactions beyond the bathroom scene, but i'm thinking Kay was probably well-behaved in front of their co-workers, so nothing to get Marc all wound up, but just seeing him and being around him is enough to have Marc pacing and smoking and thinking and wanting.
then Kay invites him to go running but he just offers the invitation and then walks away - no pressure - and Marc says no but then he shows up anyway.
See, I have a different read on the “so now you know” in the men’s room from Marc. That’s why it’s interesting to discuss and see the different takes. There’s a lot going on in this movie.
I see it as Marc going on the offensive, telling Kay “that time you jerked me off in the forest didn’t mean anything, nothing else is going to happen between us, so just forget it.” A one-shot thing.
Thing is, of course, Marc can't forget it....as you said, just seeing Kay and being around him is enough to get Marc thinking & wanting.
After the karate class when Kay says “if you do want to go jogging sometime....” he’s leaving that door wide open for Marc to walk through - but Marc didn’t say no....I mean, not that I saw...he just stood there staring after Kay. And then he went headlong through that door. I’d love to hear that phone call to Kay.
I read in an interview or critic’s review that after Marc covers Bettina with the blanket and leaves the room, you see him reflected in a mirror there: that’s when he splits himself in two; he makes up his mind to go to Kay, and that begins his double life.
i'll share a recent experience. There's a guy at work who's been married for years to the same lady. about 17 years ago they went thru fertility treatments and all the forced sex of that, and were unable to conceive. they adopted two children from overseas. lovemaking was ruined for her for life, according to him, because of the awful stuff they went thru trying and failing to conceive. they went on to make a wonderful life for their two children, who are now in college and high school. the marriage floundered from there on out and the wife is a hard, bitter, unloving woman. the man has now, just past 50, developed a friendship with a woman at the gym where he works out and he talks about her incessantly at work. i've become very tired of this because i've heard about his unhappiness for years and wanted him to leave his wife and start over, blah blah, but he says he loves her.
so anyway, we were working a mid shift together recently and i was concerned about having to listen to him talking about her but decided to try to be open minded and soon we were both sharing stories and i realized we aren't that different. my husband just has more redeeming moments than his wife, plus he has the kids to bind them. i can understand how he'd be torn tho, and how the other woman, who thinks he's God's gift, is total cocaine to him.
skip to the movies, BBM and FF. both men are in relationships with women but someone comes along who pushes buttons the woman can't push. it's easy to say they should resist temptation, and they try. they are both good men, ennis and marc. they tried to resist and they couldn't. whatever jack and kay had to offer was stronger than the bond they shared with alma and bettina.
should they stay in a relationship that doesn't meet their needs forever just because they started it? i liken it to driving: if you take a wrong turn, you don't keep going on indefinitely even after you realize you've made a mistake. you try to find your way back to your true path.
i feel sorry for anyone who marries and then later realizes they don't want to stay in the relationship forever, but sadly, that actually happens to most people. the reason why it falls apart doesn't change the fact that it does. it doesn't even necessarily mean the folks made a mistake starting the relationship. life just doesn't start on a straight, unchanging-till-the-end path. stuff happens and sometimes things don't work anymore. it doesn't mean anyone is a bad person.
just some thoughts.... s.
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You’re right, I’ve been thinking about this movie since the first time I saw it in March, so I’ve had a lot of time to process it.
Do you see Kay as the victim? That Marc led him on and then couldn’t pull the trigger...couldn’t make the choice?
About particular scenes: did you notice after the jog in the forest the first time - when Kay gives Marc the shotgun with the joint and then kisses him - the scene where Marc is packing up his running gear, he puts his running shoes in the bag and stops and looks at them for a few seconds....he’s thinking about that kiss.
And the phone call! The day after sex in the rain, when Marc answers the phone.....what on earth did Kay say to him to make Marc get that sweet smile on his face?
I could talk about this movie all day....
Reply
i watched the movie for only the second time last night: i'm on vakay with my mom and so that's twice i've watched it with her under the same roof. slightly creepy!! LOL!!
but i noticed that scene and thought the same thing: he's thinking about what happened in those shoes the last time he wore them.
i read a review of the movie and it said that Marc is moving up in the forces. when i first saw the movie i thought they were at the Police ACademy learning to be cops but M asked K how he ended up a cop, so that and the review make me think this was deeper training for already established policemen. do you know? also, at the end when Marc is back at the academy, what's up with that? any ideas?
we're going out. i'll check in later. :)
Reply
But in the very next scene, he’s outside his bedroom smoking, and he simply cannot stop thinking about Kay.
LOL @ watching under the same roof as your mom! When I first got obsessed, I downloaded it to my kindle fire and was watching it (with headphones) while I was in the waiting room at the mechanic’s, getting my car inspected! I had to shield the screen a couple times.....
They were cops, but were undergoing specialized training to be on the riot squad.
The way I read the ending is that he’s moved back into his room at the academy, and uses the track to keep up with his jogging. He’s back on the track, no more running in the forest w/Kay. But, unlike the opening scene, he pulls away from the others, he can now “breathe evenly”, the way Kay taught him. *sniff*
There are some deleted scenes out there, but in German w/no subtitles. I have 2 for sure, I’ll put them up here later, they’re pretty self-explanatory.
Have fun!
Reply
We don't get to see any of their interactions beyond the bathroom scene, but i'm thinking Kay was probably well-behaved in front of their co-workers, so nothing to get Marc all wound up, but just seeing him and being around him is enough to have Marc pacing and smoking and thinking and wanting.
then Kay invites him to go running but he just offers the invitation and then walks away - no pressure - and Marc says no but then he shows up anyway.
ok, we're off to shop some more. laters!! :)
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I see it as Marc going on the offensive, telling Kay “that time you jerked me off in the forest didn’t mean anything, nothing else is going to happen between us, so just forget it.” A one-shot thing.
Thing is, of course, Marc can't forget it....as you said, just seeing Kay and being around him is enough to get Marc thinking & wanting.
After the karate class when Kay says “if you do want to go jogging sometime....” he’s leaving that door wide open for Marc to walk through - but Marc didn’t say no....I mean, not that I saw...he just stood there staring after Kay. And then he went headlong through that door. I’d love to hear that phone call to Kay.
I read in an interview or critic’s review that after Marc covers Bettina with the blanket and leaves the room, you see him reflected in a mirror there: that’s when he splits himself in two; he makes up his mind to go to Kay, and that begins his double life.
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